Vulcans & Premarital (Pre-Ponn Far?) Sex

[Prax]

Vulcans can have sex whenever they want, right? Or is that just the females?

Otherwise, that could be sad for the various interspecies couples we've seen. Can you imagine? Would Trip be able to deal with being turned down every night for seven years?

Or what if B'elanna had given in to Vorik? The next morning, Vorik would calmly say "Thank you, Lieutenant. We are now bonded for life. 'married,' if you will, but don't worry, we will be able to experience intimacy again in 6 years, 347 days."

Now I understand why Mrs. Sarek said "It isn't easy, bit it's a better way."

 

[Timewalker]

Vulcans can have sex whenever they want, right? Or is that just the females?

If it's just the females, that would mean a lot of adultery going on.

Now I understand why Mrs. Sarek said "It isn't easy, bit it's a better way."

Which "Mrs. Sarek" - Amanda or Perrin?

There's a series of fanfiction stories about Sarek and Amanda, in which Sarek "trains" Amanda to withstand the rigors of what will happen during pon farr. It's a really uncomfortable series to read, as parts of it make Sarek seem like he's basically engaging in marital rape.

 

[Prax]

There's a series of fanfiction stories about Sarek and Amanda, in which Sarek "trains" Amanda to withstand the rigors of what will happen during pon farr.

Oh, I can tell you that.

It's rough, indeed.
You sit, cross legged in a quiet room, with 484 candles(one for each famous Vulcan philospher) facing each, other touching your two fingers together for 72 straight hours.

One year later, a Vulcan stork drops off a basket on your front door...containing a baby with pointed ears.

 

[Timewalker]

Oh, I can tell you that.

It's rough, indeed.
You sit, cross legged in a quiet room, with 484 candles(one for each famous Vulcan philospher) facing each, other touching your two fingers together for 72 straight hours.

One year later, a Vulcan stork drops off a basket on your front door...containing a baby with pointed ears.

That is not what happened in the story, and keep in mind that in "Amok Time" T'Pau warned Kirk about what was about to happen even before T'Pring challenged Spock.

There's an essay in one of the Best of Trek books in which the author asks the question: What would have happened if T'Pring hadn't challenged? She concludes that the marriage and consummation would have taken place right there, in front of witnesses.

Of course we RL witnesses would likely prefer that the consummation take place in private, and there are plenty of stories where that happens. But Vulcan seems to prefer the ancient customs when it comes to marriage, so who knows? At least if it is public, it would only be the one time, to make everything witnessed and legal. In that respect it's not too different from medieval Europe among the royalty and other aristocrats, in which the bride and groom were not only put to bed in front of witnesses, but they were also expected to consummate the marriage in front of witnesses.

 

[apepa]

Vulcans can have sex whenever they want, right? Or is that just the females?

Otherwise, that could be sad for the various interspecies couples we've seen. Can you imagine? Would Trip be able to deal with being turned down every night for seven years?

Sounds like most human marriages to me.

 

[Longinus]

Vulcans can have sex whenever they want, right? Or is that just the females?

Maybe they can, but they don't want to.

Otherwise, that could be sad for the various interspecies couples we've seen. Can you imagine? Would Trip be able to deal with being turned down every night for seven years?

Or what if B'elanna had given in to Vorik? The next morning, Vorik would calmly say "Thank you, Lieutenant. We are now bonded for life. 'married,' if you will, but don't worry, we will be able to experience intimacy again in 6 years, 347 days."

Now I understand why Mrs. Sarek said "It isn't easy, bit it's a better way."

It is not like such interspecies relationships are common, there may be a reason for that.

 

[Prax]

That is not what happened in the story, and keep in mind that in "Amok Time" T'Pau warned Kirk about what was about to happen even before T'Pring challenged Spock.

There's an essay in one of the Best of Trek books in which the author asks the question: What would have happened if T'Pring hadn't challenged? She concludes that the marriage and consummation would have taken place right there, in front of witnesses.

Of course we RL witnesses would likely prefer that the consummation take place in private, and there are plenty of stories where that happens. But Vulcan seems to prefer the ancient customs when it comes to marriage, so who knows? At least if it is public, it would only be the one time, to make everything witnessed and legal. In that respect it's not too different from medieval Europe among the royalty and other aristocrats, in which the bride and groom were not only put to bed in front of witnesses, but they were also expected to consummate the marriage in front of witnesses.

It was a joke.

 

[Timewalker]

It was a joke.

I know. I didn't laugh.

 

[Prax]

I know. I didn't laugh.

That's a shame. I feel I have let you down.

 

[uniderth]

If it's just the females, that would mean a lot of adultery going on.

*cough* T'Pring *cough*

 

[XCV330]

Considering how long lived Vulcans are, the extreme adaptations they have to their surroundings (inner eyelids, low need for water, extreme strength, non-ferrous blood, high intelligence, they may not have to perpetuate their species all that often, so once every 7 years would be fine.
Humans mate every damn chance they get possibly as a relic poor survivability in humans early on.

Consider: due to cranial size of infants and pelvis shape due to walking upright, human infants are born without any survival skills and do not have any for many months. That's not a problem now, but 200,000 years ago the infant mortality rate must have been incredibly high. With twin births then as now, a rarity, the only way for nature to keep the species going was to keep the species randy. Specialized features like larger breasts on adult females most likely evolved during that time (they're absent on other hominids)

Some Vulcans may not even LIKE sex very much. But they can always replenish their numbers with in-vitro fertilization.

They've been shown to keep family lineages, traditions, keepsakes, so they clearly value the ancestry and the family unit as least as much as humans do. It is probably easier when your granny's soul is in a jar in your china closet. They also trade and have personal possessions so they're going to need to have property law. All that seems to indicate that non-martial sex, at least in terms of procreation, would be frowned on.

 

[Timewalker]

...non-martial sex, at least in terms of procreation, would be frowned on.

I know that was a typo, but considering that some Vulcan men have to kill to win their mates, it struck me funny.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Vulcans can have sex whenever they want, right?

Correct.

(There's no proof to contradict this, anyway.)

Most Vulcans still have emotions - even though they don't normally display them in public - so there's no reason why they couldn't enjoy sex as much as any other species would.

 

[XCV330]

I know that was a typo, but considering that some Vulcan men have to kill to win their mates, it struck me funny.

I hate it when my subconscious takes over the keyboard.

 

[Timewalker]

I hate it when my subconscious takes over the keyboard.

Get a cat. Cats are always handy to blame for typos.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Sarek probably had sex all the time, as often or nearly as often as Amanda or Perrin wished for it. The "toughness" that Amanda talked of was that Sarek probably made little-to-no emotional connection during the intercourse (even if he wanted to), which can be tough for a human female, but she knew what she was getting into.

Most Vulcans, in my belief, repress all urges, and don't bother outside of their cycle, except perhaps when they are young and experimental or when advised to for some reason.

It's not frowned upon, to use a turn of phrase, but why bother when it's just near-robotic going through the motions?

 

[Timewalker]

Sarek probably had sex all the time, as often or nearly as often as Amanda or Perrin wished for it. The "toughness" that Amanda talked of was that Sarek probably made little-to-no emotional connection during the intercourse (even if he wanted to), which can be tough for a human female, but she knew what she was getting into.

Most Vulcans, in my belief, repress all urges, and don't bother outside of their cycle, except perhaps when they are young and experimental or when advised to for some reason.

It's not frowned upon, to use a turn of phrase, but why bother when it's just near-robotic going through the motions?

Nope.

We see in Voyager that the telepathic connection is still important to Tuvok, even decades after he and T'Pel married and their kids grew up, married, and started having their own kids.

That's why Tuvok was so resistant to using a holodeck substitute for his wife when his pon farr happened. A hologram could look like his wife but they could never have the telepathic/emotional connection.

I doubt Sarek would have been any different. Vulcan marriage includes a telepathic bond, and he and Amanda would have undergone mind melds and some sort of telepathic marriage bond.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Nope.

We see in Voyager that the telepathic connection is still important to Tuvok, even decades after he and T'Pel married and their kids grew up, married, and started having their own kids.

That's why Tuvok was so resistant to using a holodeck substitute for his wife when his pon farr happened. A hologram could look like his wife but they could never have the telepathic/emotional connection.

I doubt Sarek would have been any different. Vulcan marriage includes a telepathic bond, and he and Amanda would have undergone mind melds and some sort of telepathic marriage bond.

Oh, definitely. With Enterprise, we see a "loveless" marriage, at a time when telepathic bonds are downplayed or ignored. Koss and T'Pol never seemingly had pon farr, despite being about 66 at the time of their wedding. Tuvok had pon farr at age 40 (2304), and Spock was 37 (2267, T'Pring did not seem to have her cycle aligned with his). If the Encyclopedia is to be believed, Sybok was conceived when Sarek was about 57, although that's supposition based on the weird idea that Spock was also conceived during pon farr, which I disagree with. Probably not too far off though, given Sybok's appearance in Spock's flashback.

Sarek probably had to have something happen after his first wife's death to handle the worsening pon farrs that happen as a Vulcan gets older (as told by Tuvok).

 

[Timewalker]

Oh, definitely. With Enterprise, we see a "loveless" marriage, at a time when telepathic bonds are downplayed or ignored. Koss and T'Pol never seemingly had pon farr, despite being about 66 at the time of their wedding. Tuvok had pon farr at age 40 (2304), and Spock was 37 (2267, T'Pring did not seem to have her cycle aligned with his). If the Encyclopedia is to be believed, Sybok was conceived when Sarek was about 57, although that's supposition based on the weird idea that Spock was also conceived during pon farr, which I disagree with. Probably not too far off though, given Sybok's appearance in Spock's flashback.

Sarek probably had to have something happen after his first wife's death to handle the worsening pon farrs that happen as a Vulcan gets older (as told by Tuvok).

I never saw most of Enterprise, so I'm unfamiliar with T'Pol's love life or marriage.

I consider The Final Frontier to be about as reliable as "Threshold." In short: you are using "evidence" I don't accept.

 

[Tim Thomason]

I never saw most of Enterprise, so I'm unfamiliar with T'Pol's love life or marriage.

I consider The Final Frontier to be about as reliable as "Threshold." In short: you are using "evidence" I don't accept.

To each their own. Final Frontier provides alot of backstory to Sarek for this discussion, which otherwise is a big black hole on what happened to his first wife and how he ended up married to a human 40 years his junior.

Enterprise gives us a Vulcan marriage in the fourth season with no pon farr in sight, and earlier provides us with "interesting" ideas about a telepathy stigma, that reconceptualizes how Vulcans work.

I grew up with different ideas on Vulcans based on a smaller canon too. Even Discovery is making changes to my favorite race, but c'est la vie.