Voyager stronger first half than second half?

[jibrilmudo]

I think something like TNG needed a long time to get up and running... like by latter half of 2nd season.

I'm rewatching this show, and I notice that I watch more the first 3 seasons than the rest.

I would have judged Chakotay a plank of wood before, but he's actually fairly active (compared to, say, Riker) and has a distinct, if not quiet, personality of his own that got ignored the latter half of the show. If they had just cut the overt indian stuff out, left off the tat, and simply drawn parallel with his warrior nature and his ancestor's past, would have been enough.

I'm rather surprised at the pairings I'm seeing that I forgot about. I was seeing B'elanna end up with Harry (Starfleet) simply from being in more scenes together or her and Chakotay (very early on, very fleetingly). Kes with either the Doctor or Paris. It really leads me to ask about the possibilities of what if she wasn't tied to Neelix from the beginning, but they were two characters with no history with each other? I think a mistake they made.

Why is Tom, pilot and Bridge Officer, kept as medic? Baffles me later on. Surely someone in Stellar cartography could be burdened a bit more.

Seska was killed too early on. Queen Seska should have remained alive, eventually forcing Voyager to spend some eps backtracking to her for once, realizing she didn't need to take physical technology with her..... she beamed out in her escape with a modern version of a usb stick with all the info she needed to make it from scratch.

I liked 7 of 9. But it would have been fun to see the Doctor and Kes quasi raise her like mother and father rather than the Doctor add yet another love interest to his stable of every woman he meets. Less creepy for the ship's MD that way. Kes dying at the end of Voyager's journey would have been poignant, maybe a year early by using her lifeforce to jump them distances in crises.

7 and the Doctor's popularity bought out lazy writing in the staff. Other than Captain, the rest of the crew got ignored and became more boring.

Tuvok seems perpetually underutilized. Killing Kes contributed to that. And also Lon Suder. That guy should have stayed a bit longer. He was developing into something spectacular. Harry as his protege never went anywhere, just like Chakotay's boxer self.

Other than 7/Captain and B'ellanna/Paris, the second half of the series was really missing a lot of these interpersonal relationships that made it feel like a small ship adrift in a strange world, especially ones that didn't wear the rut in the road, drenched in sentimentality and have possibility for some drama.

Just some random thoughts.

 

[NightJim]

I dunno, Having watched Voyager over the last year, I get the impression season 7 was trying to reverse the trend, the other members of the cast are given a fair bit to do for a change, especially Tom and B'elanna. Certainly season 5&6 suffer but at the same time, I seem to recall season 3 being a bit dead in the water too. For me I'd say seasons 1, 2, 4, and 7 seem to be the stronger.

On the Tom front, I have to say I don't think he is the only medic. In the background during emergency situations the EMH and the Doc usually have another one or two people helping. They just leave Tom as top medic as he's a named character and the audience already know that relationship. And the odd writer treats him as the only one too.

 

[Isolinear]

In my opinion the individual episodes were better in the second half. When I feel like watching Voyager, most of the time it's something from S4-7.
But with the loss of Kes, the Caretaker search, Maquis, Kazon, Vidians and continuity, Voyager did lose some of it's identity.

Yes, a lot of the S4-7 episodes focused on Seven and the Doctor. But most shows tend to focus on the most popular characters. And even though I love Seven/Doctor episodes, I would have liked more Tuvok. I don't understand why the writers didn't do more with him.

 

[jaz'a]

I definitely prefer the later seasons. I'll watch the odd episode from seasons 1 - 3 but I tend to watch seasons 5 and 6 the most.

A common criticism is that Voyager became the Janeway, Doctor and Seven show in the later seasons. There is some truth to this, but that's part of why I do re-watch those seasons the most. Janeway is the character that I loved when the show was still airing and she's the character that I still enjoy the most. The best Janeway episodes are in the later seasons. The lack of the story arcs don't really bother me - I prefer been able to just pick out my favourite episodes without having to watch the one before and the one after. Much less having to watch half a season.

I do agree the later seasons do feel like a different show to the early seasons. When I do watch the earlier episodes I always notice that it has a different feel. It's not the same show - I just happen to interpret that as voyager getting better, not worse.

 

[Jeri]

I have watched 4-7 more often than 1-3; but I love 1-3, too.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I spent some years watching 4-7 into pulp. Appreciated the first 3 when I went back to them, but as far as "strong" goes 4-7 win.

 

[Lance]

Some very, very good observations going on in this thread.

I think something like TNG needed a long time to get up and running... like by latter half of 2nd season.

I'm rewatching this show, and I notice that I watch more the first 3 seasons than the rest.

I would have judged Chakotay a plank of wood before, but he's actually fairly active (compared to, say, Riker) and has a distinct, if not quiet, personality of his own that got ignored the latter half of the show. If they had just cut the overt indian stuff out, left off the tat, and simply drawn parallel with his warrior nature and his ancestor's past, would have been enough.

I'm rather surprised at the pairings I'm seeing that I forgot about. I was seeing B'elanna end up with Harry (Starfleet) simply from being in more scenes together or her and Chakotay (very early on, very fleetingly). Kes with either the Doctor or Paris. It really leads me to ask about the possibilities of what if she wasn't tied to Neelix from the beginning, but they were two characters with no history with each other? I think a mistake they made.

Why is Tom, pilot and Bridge Officer, kept as medic? Baffles me later on. Surely someone in Stellar cartography could be burdened a bit more.

Seska was killed too early on. Queen Seska should have remained alive, eventually forcing Voyager to spend some eps backtracking to her for once, realizing she didn't need to take physical technology with her..... she beamed out in her escape with a modern version of a usb stick with all the info she needed to make it from scratch.

I liked 7 of 9. But it would have been fun to see the Doctor and Kes quasi raise her like mother and father rather than the Doctor add yet another love interest to his stable of every woman he meets. Less creepy for the ship's MD that way. Kes dying at the end of Voyager's journey would have been poignant, maybe a year early by using her lifeforce to jump them distances in crises.

7 and the Doctor's popularity bought out lazy writing in the staff. Other than Captain, the rest of the crew got ignored and became more boring.

Tuvok seems perpetually underutilized. Killing Kes contributed to that. And also Lon Suder. That guy should have stayed a bit longer. He was developing into something spectacular. Harry as his protege never went anywhere, just like Chakotay's boxer self.

Other than 7/Captain and B'ellanna/Paris, the second half of the series was really missing a lot of these interpersonal relationships that made it feel like a small ship adrift in a strange world, especially ones that didn't wear the rut in the road, drenched in sentimentality and have possibility for some drama.

Just some random thoughts.

I am mostly in agreement. The first phase of the show does feel very different from the second phase, in a way that perhaps even TNG wasn't as starkly different in general tone later than before. There's a dividing line somewhere around the middle where it all changes.

Interesting what you say about the early hook-ups, as it completely tallys with my own views and is perhaps the most interesting thing in comparing later to former. I totally thought they were going to go for B'elanna and Chakotay for a while there; also of course the Chakotay/Janeway UST was at its highest in those early seasons. One felt something was lost when those things just... kind of... vanished.

In my opinion the individual episodes were better in the second half. When I feel like watching Voyager, most of the time it's something from S4-7.
But with the loss of Kes, the Caretaker search, Maquis, Kazon, Vidians and continuity, Voyager did lose some of it's identity.

Again, completely agree. I think they did replace them with some interesting stuff, Seven added something new to the mix, but some of those early 'arcs' (I use the term loosely, but they were there) gave it more a feeling of cohesion. Of course, as many others have said before, the trouble with a revolving roster of regular villains like the Kazon and the Vidians is that it generally fought against the premise of the show which was basically "ship constantly moving forward towards Earth". If there's a Trek show where a lack of recurring aliens and a resurgence of Alien-Of-The-Week was very much in favor, then Voyager was the show. Its almost the complete antithesis of TNG (patrolling regular space lanes) or DS9 (sitting still and waiting for the aliens to come to them, instead of them going to the aliens).

 

[Lynx]

Voyager was much better in seasons 1, 2 and 3 than later.

In the first three seasons, all of the characters had something to do. There were many good stories, especially in season 2 which must be one of the strongest seasons overall in Star Trek.

Later on, it became a show focused on only three characters while the others were showed in the background. Lots of bum episodes too.

 

[Richard Baker]

I agree with your observations. The second half of Voyager did some wonderful shows which were a bit experimental- 'Living Witness' is one of my favorites.
I did not care for the Kazon at all, but the early shows did have a much more interesting dynamic between different characters, a lot of potentials which were never properly followed up.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think most of the strongest episodes were in season 5-6.

Season 2 had some success with the Kazon/Vidiian threads but also it suffered from "Hey the Kazon can't travel as fast as Voyager can but still seem to constantly catch up with them yay continuity". Season 3 was rife with mediocrity and season 4 they hadn't figured out how to use 7 properly yet so most of it was either Hirogen eps or "7 doesn't play well with others" eps. Season 7 had some nice two parters but the standalones were a bit meh.

 

[Dukhat]

Usually with Trek spinoffs, it takes a few years to finally get off the ground. It took the first two lackluster seasons of TNG before they really figured out what they wanted to do with the characters. Same for DS9. ENT's first two seasons could have been written for VOY before they decided to change tacks and do the Xindi arc. But speaking of VOY...

I personally think that the first two seasons of VOY were the show's best. Yes, the Kazon were silly villains and Neelix was just annoying, but there was a whole lot of potential, what with being stuck in an unknown area of space, two divergent crews having to work together, and unique things such as a spiritual aspect that had so far never been done before. I really thought Chakotay was going to be the breakout character, since several stories were directly and indirectly focused on his spirituality and vision quests. I also really liked the Tom Paris character, although he really should have been Nick Locarno (but that's not important right now...)

But then something happened, and I'm not just alluding to 7 of 9. Something changed. The majority of the original creators and writers left, leaving mediocre ones in their place. Any tension between the Feds and the Maquis just vanished. Any tension about being lost and not having allies, supplies, food, water, etc. vanished. UPN decided not to take any risks, and focused more on the dumb interpersonal relationships between the characters (and in some cases just creating them out of nowhere), and also decided to make the show episodic just like TNG, to the point where every time the ship meets an alien-of-the-week, Janeway says "This is the starship Voyager of the United Federation of Planets," and the aliens act as if they know exactly what she's talking about despite being on the other side of the galaxy. Chakotay was reduced to the "plank of wood" that the OP mentioned, and the show ended up being focused on Janeway, Seven, and the Doctor. And then they brought in the Borg because they had run out of ideas as to what the show was supposed to be about. By the final episode, the audience doesn't even get the privilege of seeing a real homecoming, just Janeway saying "You can read my report, Admiral." It's like everyone just simply stopped caring.

Rant over.

 

[Lynx]

I dunno, Having watched Voyager over the last year, I get the impression season 7 was trying to reverse the trend, the other members of the cast are given a fair bit to do for a change, especially Tom and B'elanna. Certainly season 5&6 suffer but at the same time, I seem to recall season 3 being a bit dead in the water too. For me I'd say seasons 1, 2, 4, and 7 seem to be the stronger.

On the Tom front, I have to say I don't think he is the only medic. In the background during emergency situations the EMH and the Doc usually have another one or two people helping. They just leave Tom as top medic as he's a named character and the audience already know that relationship. And the odd writer treats him as the only one too.

I haven't watched season 7, only "Endgame" so I can't come up with any comments about certain episodes.

But if they tried to reverse something in season 7, it was already too late. They had already ruined too much of the series, especially in season 6.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

For me, Seven ruined the show. After her arrival, most episodes seemed to focus on her (either as the cause or solution or both of each plot), whilst development on almost all the other characters ground to a halt--except for Janeway (a character I started off liking but since there wasn't much consistency with her I drifted from) and the EMH (who was such a hammy character he became more and more unwatchable as the show went on).

Sorry Seven fans, but I'd have been happier if they left her with the Collective.

 

[Isolinear]

I personally think that the first two seasons of VOY were the show's best. Yes, the Kazon were silly villains and Neelix was just annoying, but there was a whole lot of potential, what with being stuck in an unknown area of space, two divergent crews having to work together, and unique things such as a spiritual aspect that had so far never been done before. I really thought Chakotay was going to be the breakout character, since several stories were directly and indirectly focused on his spirituality and vision quests. I also really liked the Tom Paris character, although he really should have been Nick Locarno (but that's not important right now...)

The Kazon were the worst "villain" ever created for Star Trek. So agressive and tribal that they could barely be in the same room with eachother.... how did they ever manage to pilot starships? Give me a break.

I never liked Chakotay's "spirituality", or anything "spiritual" in Star Trek for that matter. Vision quests, "Sacred Ground", the Bajorans praying every 3 seconds. Yuck. Cringeworthy stuff.
Thankfully the writers pulled back a bit from that in later seasons, but all we were left with was a cardboard cutout first officer whose sole purpose was to agree or disagree with Janeway's decisions.

Nick Locarno? Wasn't that the fake name Tom Paris used at the academy?

But then something happened, and I'm not just alluding to 7 of 9. Something changed. The majority of the original creators and writers left, leaving mediocre ones in their place. Any tension between the Feds and the Maquis just vanished. Any tension about being lost and not having allies, supplies, food, water, etc. vanished.

I think you're rewriting history somewhat. The Maquis tension vanished after only ten episodes or so, long before the original writers left. And in "Heroes and Demons" the holodeck was already in full use for recreation (energy reserves anyone?)

UPN decided not to take any risks, and focused more on the dumb interpersonal relationships between the characters (and in some cases just creating them out of nowhere), and also decided to make the show episodic just like TNG. [...]

Not necessarily bad once you get over the disappointment of the failed "stranded in the DQ" concept. I really like TNG, so more TNG with a different crew is fine by me.

And then they brought in the Borg because they had run out of ideas as to what the show was supposed to be about.

It was the right call for season 4. The episodes improved a lot. Unfortunately they milked the Borg way too long, just like DS9 did with the Dominion War. (Actually, when you count them, there are a lot more Dominion episodes in DS9, than Borg episodes in Voyager. Just sayin'....)
I guess once writers strike gold they don't want to change a winning formula.

By the final episode, the audience doesn't even get the privilege of seeing a real homecoming, just Janeway saying "You can read my report, Admiral." It's like everyone just simply stopped caring.

Yeah, that was disappointing. But in a way, we did see the homecoming. The one from the original timeline. To be honest it never bothered me the first time I watched the show.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I agree with Seven's presence strangling the show in season 4 but I think that got toned down once Seven had acclimated to being part of the crew.

In seasons 5-6, Seven's development revolved around her friendship with the Doctor and less around throwing temper tantrums and running off on her own, and we got more of a focus on individual scripts like Blink of an Eye and Counterpoint.

Unfortunately those are also the seasons where we were constantly subjected to Malificent of Borg.

 

[Isolinear]

Unfortunately those are also the seasons where we were constantly subjected to Malificent of Borg.

I counted only 8 Borg episodes in those two seasons.

(Drone, Infinite Regress, Dark Frontier 1&2, Survival Instinct, Collective, Child's Play, Unimatrix Zero 1)

8 out of 52 is not what I would call constantly.

 

[tomswift2002]

I find that Seasons 1-3 were the best seasons for Voyager. "Future's End" from Season 3 I've always considered to be Voyager's "Best Of Both World's". And I always found Kes to have been a more interesting character than Seven.

Season 4 was probably the best Seven season, and I like where it was heading, but then the "Night" episode was Voyager's "Jumping The Shark" episode and it never managed to recover: it sort of felt like the writer's just kicked back their feet and said "Voyager will coast on its own momentum". Plus I found so many of the shows tended to be ship shows---there was very little location shots, and when there was a planet most of them were built on set.

 

[Harvey]

I'm not really crazy about any of it -- Voyager, in my book, is easily the worst series of the franchise -- but seasons five, six, and seven are especially unremarkable years of television. In those last three seasons, the series seemed to regress rather than grow, pushing most of its cast to the margins, pursuing duller and duller storylines, and totally abandoning any attempt at stylistic or dramatic innovation.

 

[Isolinear]

I have said it before, and I will say it again (until I understand); why do so many people think Voyager was a weaker show than TNG? I truly don't get it.
Unless you don't like some cast members, or the unfortunate lack of continuity, what does Voyager do wrong exactly?
The episodes themselves are the same type of stories you saw on TNG. Not so strange, because after all it was created, written and produced by the same people.

In fact all four spinoff series are remarkably similar, and only differ in the details. Yet somehow Voyager (and Enterprise) is singled out as the 'bad apple'. Is it because these series came last, and didn't implement radical changes to the TNG formula?

 

[TedShatner10]

I'm not really crazy about any of it -- Voyager, in my book, is easily the worst series of the franchise -- but seasons five, six, and seven are especially unremarkable years of television. In those last three seasons, the series seemed to regress rather than grow, pushing most of its cast to the margins, pursuing duller and duller storylines, and totally abandoning any attempt at stylistic or dramatic innovation.

I dunno, I find that seasons 5, 6, and 7 were overall not as good as the sum of their parts, but with a fair few episodes I can rewatch all these years later, while the more coherent, less formulaic seasons 1, 2 and 3 had more forgettable episodes I wouldn't mind not watching again (with Season 4 of course being the stand out).