Voyager, sorry.... what ? moments.
- Thread starter The Lonely Man
- Start date
Like a cup of chamomile tea before bedtime! Zzzzz But I jest! The only scenes she was great in were the ones where whispering and smiling or crying uncontrollably was needed. Wait! They were never needed!
He actually believed in the US left wing propaganda machine.
No use in discussing this matter with you since you seem to hate both the character and the actress so deeply and take every chance to spit on both the character and the actress as soon as you get the chance.
But obviously some people just have to hate something or someone.
I do agree that her best moments were ones that called for little emotion. I always found her more "intense" scenes poorly acted
I strongly disagree since she was brilliant in such scenes, definitely better than Dawson and Ryan.
Just look at episodes like "Jetrel", "Elogium", "Time And Again", "The Swarm", "Tuvix", "Parturition"....
Can a WTF moment be an entire episode? If so then Elogium. The whole process seemed upsurd. There was also the implication that Kes and Neelix hadn't mated before. I don't buy that.
What confuses me even more, is the whole, one time in a life deal. And she only takes about having one child growing in this sack whatever. This literal means your population is cute in half each generation. The Ocampa have a biological countdown to extinction. And for that race they stranded themselves in the Delta Quadrant
Really? Elogium?
Yes, we are looking at those episodes. And seeing bad acting and a boring character that was helping to kill the series. Three emotions: Whispering, Smiling, crying uncontrollably because something frightened her. WOW what talent! Are u 4 real?
No use in discussing this matter with you since you seem to hate both the character and the actress so deeply and take every chance to spit on both the character and the actress as soon as you get the chance.
But obviously some people just have to hate something or someone.
I don't hate her at all. What I have a problem with is denial.
"I strongly disagree since she was brilliant in such scenes..."
"If anyone was great in quiet and emotional scenes it was Lien."
"I think the concept of her powers expanding and it aging her is interesting."
"That could have brought some interesting drama."
"What we saw with Lien in say, Warlord, that woman had volume and potential we would only get a glimpse of."
"The audience didn't dislike Kes. There were other characters who were more disliked and dislike wasn't the reason why she was dumped. Kes was never boring and the writers, well they had no problems to come up with good stories about her until they were ordererd by Berman, Braga and Taylor to lose the abilities to write about her."
The character was so well liked and interesting. I agree that they should have improved ratings by finding more ways to explore Her, For example, they could have:
- Added to the gripping suspense of each episode by growing her hair even longer or maybe cutting it short again.
- Filmed her smiling, and/or whispering quietly from many, many different camera angles.
- Had many more interesting scenes of her crying and/or sobbing because something frightened her.
- Explored the timeless sub-plot of her staring at a candle in Tuvok's quarters.
- Had many more compelling scenes of her nervously eating dinner with Neelix.
- Delved deeper and deeper into her fascinating quest to stop the doctor's ill treatment by the crew.
- Explored many more action-packed scenes of her child-like interactions with Tom Paris.
- Explored another ret-conned "power" or two.
- Maybe she can learn to drive a shuttle!
Yes I'm for real and I mean every word that I've written about this.
Lien could really master different emotions, something she showed in the epiosdes I mentioned and many more.
She was better than Dawson and Ryan at that, wether it was because Dawson and Ryan never had so many emotional scenes or not.
Dawson was brilliant in the "angry Klingon" mode but there were seldom any other emotional scenes she was as good at. Most of all she acted confused in such potential scenes. And I've actually never seen Ryan in any emotional scenes, not in Voyager and not in "Boston Public", that lawyer series which name I've forgotten and NCIS.
Oh yes, I get the impression that you really hate the character and the actress, otherwise you wouldn't spend so much time on this forum trashing the character in thread after thread, basically copying your previous tirades from previous posts, like those points you've written above.
I could easily question and criticize the exaggeartions in those points but I find it rather meaningless. It's actually more truth and substance in the quotes from my previous posts which you were friendly enough to quote in your otherwise not so nice post.
By the way, have we met on some other forum? You remind me of someone I used to debate with but the username is different.
Finn wrote:
"Elogium" is a weak episode with a confusing story but Lien is making an excellent performance in this one.
Kes herself may have only been carrying one child, but there's no indication that multiple births like twins, triplets, etc. are impossible in Ocampan society at large. Indeed, they'd have to be possible, for the exact reason you describe.
It's possible. Maybe he was just nervous about mating.
Yes. She mastered the emotions of:
- Smiling.
- Whispering quietly in sickbay, and smiling
- Nervously having dinner with Neelix, and smiling
- Crying or sobbing hysterically because something frightened her, then smiling.
- Overacting in an out-of-character episode or scene in a last ditch effort to bring depth to her one-dimensional character. But all the time smiling on the inside.
- Staring at a candle in Tuvok's quarters, and smiling.
- Having juvenile dialog with Tom Paris, and smiling. (Let's make Neelix jealous. That's interesting!)
The character was superfluous. She had the least amount of potential, the least amount of fan interest, the character just didn't work... so she was fired and replaced. No matter how much time you spend trying to plead your case, you already lost your battle. Just repeating over and over that she had "so much potential" doesn't make you right. If it were true, she wouldn't have been released.
Rick Berman: The departure of Kes was decided before the Seven of Nine character was ever conceived of. The writers felt like there were no more interesting facets to explore with Kes. The romance with Neelix never really paid off, and she was seen as something of an albatross. It was difficult for the writers to find something relevant for her to do. We felt at minimum, that she was another paycheck without much payoff.
He's not talking about a character with potential here, unless you mean the potential to help get a series cancelled. He's talking about an uninteresting, one-dimensional character that needed an extraordinary amount of effort to work with. And after all the effort, there was little or no payoff. This is the text book definition of superfluous. UNNECESSARY. To the cast, to the show, to a scene.
Robert Picardo: "I remember Rick Berman putting his arm around me at a party and saying, 'You're going to be the most popular character on the show. I thought he was from outer space, because as far as I was concerned, I had the worst part on the show. No one was more surprised by the emergence of the doctor's popularity than me, because I just didn't get it, I didn't see it. I think part of the problem was that I didn't really understand the character when I did the pilot. It wasn't until we got into the first couple of episodes when I started to understand where the writers were headed and why this notion of a computer program with a bad attitude was funny, but also touching."
The doctor had no boobs and no skin tight suit. Yet by the end of the series seven years later, he was one of the three principal characters on the show, together with Captain Janeway and Seven of Nine. Interest means popularity, popularity means more screen time.
It wasn't the first time character focus shifted on a show, It wasn't the first time uninteresting, superfluous characters are released from a show. It certainly won't be the last time. Get over it. It happens on TV more often than not.
What blog specifically? I don't think I've ever joined another blog before. But I'm sure others like me have relentlessly called you out for being blind, and wading waist-deep in denial.
So Voyager should have been cancelled if Kes had stayed? That is downright ridiculous!
If there had been any truth in this, then 99% of all series would have been cancelled after one or two seasons because of one "uninteresting" character.
As for the Berman quote about Kes, that seems like another of after-construction to me. If they had made such a decision, then they would have smacked that statement right in the face of the fans immediately after ditching Kes and when fans started to question the decision to get rid of the character and the first lie those in charge came up with, the one that "Lien quit of her own free will". When people didn't believe that, they came up with a second fairy tale, the one that "the writers couldn't write for the character".
And now this third piece of deception from "the boss" himself.
If Berman didn't like "paychecks with no payoffs" then the greedy guy could have fired his staff of writers because if they couldn't write for the character, then they were not doing their job and should have been fired. Then he would have saved a lot of his beloved money. Even better if he had resined himself considering the total failure he and his gang had with "Enterprise" later on.
The decision to have the focus on three main characters and shove the other Voyager characters in the background obviously didn't pay off either due to the constantly sinking ratings for the series from the middle of season 4 (after the Seven hype had began to fade off) to the end of the series.
And honestly, I don't find your rantings aren't convincing at all. I can't help seeing this as rather substanceless trtashing of a character you hate and an actress you obvious strongly dislike too.
As I see it, Kes was a great character who deserved better than to be kicked out and Lien did an excellent job in portraying the character. Period.
In relativity Braxton blames Janeway for him being stuck in the 20th century for 30 years.
But we were already told that Braxton in this timeline didn't experience that version of events.
But we were already told that Braxton in this timeline didn't experience that version of events.
But wasn't that because it was an alternate reality version of him? I know, time travel paradoxes in stories like this give me a headache.
No producer or network is going to run around saying that an actress was dismissed because she sucked. Genevieve Bujold "Left of her own free will" too. She sucked 500 times worse than Kes. That pilot excerpt literally causes me pain to watch. After accepting the part and filming part of the pilot a 30 year acting veteran "suddenly" figured out "how rigorous a series would be" and "quit".
Oh the fantasy land you have to live in to protect your thoughts.
Hahahaha. Throw good money after bad. Go Hillary!
Albatross Metaphorical
1: Something that greatly hinders accomplishment; encumbrance; dead weight
2: A burden, physiological or otherwise, that feels like a curse
One-dimensional
1: Relating to a single dimension or aspect; having no depth or scope; superficial
Dismissal Job related
1: Forced removal from a position or service.
2: The act of treating something as unworthy of serious consideration; rejection.
Let's measure:
Jennifer Lien from IMDB, post Voyager
2003 Battle Force Andromeda(TV Series) (voice, rumored)
2001 Accident Don't Happen (Nurse)
1997-2000 Men in Black (voice)
1995-1997 Star Trek: Voyager
(What a STELLAR career for this gifted actress that MASTERED emotions).
Jeri Ryan from IMDB, post Voyager
2016 Bosch (TV Series)
2016 Against the Wild 2: Survive the Serengeti
2014-2016 Major Crimes (TV Series)
2015 Arrow (TV Series)
2014-2015 Helix (TV Series)
2015 NCIS (TV Series)
2014 Family Guy: The Quest for Stuff (Video Game)
2011-2013 Body of Proof (TV Series)
2011-2012 Warehouse 13 (TV Series)
2009-2011 Leverage (TV Series)
2004-2011 Two and a Half Men (TV Series)
2011 Mortal Kombat: Legacy (TV Series)
2010 Dead Lines (TV Movie)
2010 Secrets in the Walls (TV Movie)
2010 Mortal Kombat: Rebirth (Video)
2009-2010 Law & Order: Special Victims Unit (TV Series)
2010 Psych (TV Series)
2006-2008 Shark (TV Series)
2006 Boston Legal (TV Series)
2005 The Commuters (TV Movie)
2005 The O.C. (TV Series)
2001-2004 Boston Public (TV Series)
2004 Sudbury (TV Movie)
2003 Down with Love
1997-2001 Star Trek: Voyager (TV Series)
Facts don't lie.
By "Excellent" do you mean "Painful to watch" by any chance? That whole episode was one big WTF moment, especially Kes' involvement.
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