Haters gonna hate, sir!
Voyager, sorry.... what ? moments.
- Thread starter The Lonely Man
- Start date
Anyone that continues this Lien / Kes argument in this thread, after I've asked it to stop, is getting a warning. It's off topic and has hijacked the entire thread.
^^
And there are those who thinks that I'm obsessed with Kes!
Obviously I've met my match!
What good is a blog if you can't have a nice, heated debate?
I like the way Tim Russ played the Tuvok character, and I wish they focused on him a little bit more. But Seven and the doctor got more attention, because they were the most popular characters, and that's the way they chose to go. It makes no sense for me to rant about them not writing a bigger part for Tuvok, nor does it make sense for me to deny that the doctor and Seven characters were well written and acted, or that they could provide many more interesting stories because of their unique situations.
It's great that your favorite is Kes, and you have every right to wish they expanded the character a bit more. But you need to be a little more objective and agree that the character was written into a corner, had nowhere to go, and wasn't really that interesting to others. And they did the right thing by adding a more interesting character they could work with while shifting the focus to other more popular and more interesting characters. It sucks for you, but it's reality. No point creating your own.
sorry didn't see this in time.
Heated debate is fine. But some of these comments, like this, are getting into trolling range. AKA posting just to piss off the other person. Knock it off.
Feel free to start a new thread on the Awesomeness of Kes. But if it gets nasty I'll lock it down.
On this matter I had two thoughts. One was that the Caretaker had been limiting their reproduction as he had been limiting them in other ways. The other, and most likely I think, is that multiple births are common. Just because she said she could only be pregnant once doesn't mean she can only have one child. Kes had mentioned having an uncle, therefore at least one of her parents had a sibling.
But wasn't that because it was an alternate reality version of him? I know, time travel paradoxes in stories like this give me a headache.
The version of Braxton that planted the weapon was from 'our' timeline, namely the timeline Voyager was set in, it was confirmed when future Braxton explained to current ( or less future), Braxton about how events would play out.
But, as we were told in Futures end, Braxton, that is our timelines Braxton, didn't experience being stranded in the 20th century.
Now, I'm more confused than before. LOL.
I've thought of another WTF moment. Because of a reply to my post on another thread. And I realize it was played for laughs. I do think it's a funny scene. In Renaissance Man, are we to believe Tom wouldn't have realized he was not actually kissing his wife? But a hologram that looked like her (the Doctor).
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Probably if he started to go further than just a quick kiss he would have noticed. But since it was just a quick peck he probably had no reason to think anything was wrong other than her acting wierd possibly to something pregnancy related
I think the very fact that it was Tom even asking the question is the clue that yeah, after all the Doctor's others confessions, Tom suspected something.
It might not have dawned on him at the time and had he not heard the Doctor spilling his secrets he may not ever have thought twice about it. But then maybe later, he and B'Elanna might have started talking about how he brought friend chicken to engineering, and she got upset about it because it was bad it was for her.... but then she called him sweetheart etc etc...and B'Elanna would want to know what the hell he was going on about.
It might not have dawned on him at the time and had he not heard the Doctor spilling his secrets he may not ever have thought twice about it. But then maybe later, he and B'Elanna might have started talking about how he brought friend chicken to engineering, and she got upset about it because it was bad it was for her.... but then she called him sweetheart etc etc...and B'Elanna would want to know what the hell he was going on about.
I always wondered if they had a similar conversation after her encounter with Steth in her quarters when he was being Tom.
Just a bit of friendly advice - don't look up Alexander Siddig on IMDB. You might short-circuit.
There are some things I don't understand.
1) why did Janeway impose to Chakotay, B'Elena and their friends to wear a Starfleet uniform but let them keep their insign from Maquis, especially after "Hunters" (4x15), when Chakotay learnt to B'Elena that the Maquis didn't exist anymore! Then later, in "The Voyager's Conspiracy" (6x09) we learnt from Janeway that Chakotay informed her that he has given up his allegiance to the Maquis a long time ago.
-> as they have left (= resigned) Starfleet to join the Maquis rebellion AND that their current ranks were temporary, I can understand that they were unable to wear pips like all other Starfleet commsionned officers. But could they decide to find something else to differentiate themselves from others?
2) I understand that B'Elena was a genius in engineering and that her position in this department was obvious but why to have given her a temporary commission of Lieutenant Junior even though the young woman left the Starfleet Academy before ending her military cursus. At worst, she should have been a temporary cadet and at best, a temporary enseign...
3) Janeway was very lucky no to have a mutiny in her crew: I mean, how some respectable Starfleet officers (from Enseigns to Lieutenants) never thought to rebel - especially at the beginning - against her order to accept Chakotay, one of leader of the Maquis and supposed outlaw for the Federation, as their 1st officer or even Torres as Chief Engineer?!
-> we saw what's happened when Tom Paris came aboard in Caretaker but for Chakotay and Cie, everything was ok?!
1) why did Janeway impose to Chakotay, B'Elena and their friends to wear a Starfleet uniform but let them keep their insign from Maquis, especially after "Hunters" (4x15), when Chakotay learnt to B'Elena that the Maquis didn't exist anymore! Then later, in "The Voyager's Conspiracy" (6x09) we learnt from Janeway that Chakotay informed her that he has given up his allegiance to the Maquis a long time ago.
-> as they have left (= resigned) Starfleet to join the Maquis rebellion AND that their current ranks were temporary, I can understand that they were unable to wear pips like all other Starfleet commsionned officers. But could they decide to find something else to differentiate themselves from others?
2) I understand that B'Elena was a genius in engineering and that her position in this department was obvious but why to have given her a temporary commission of Lieutenant Junior even though the young woman left the Starfleet Academy before ending her military cursus. At worst, she should have been a temporary cadet and at best, a temporary enseign...
3) Janeway was very lucky no to have a mutiny in her crew: I mean, how some respectable Starfleet officers (from Enseigns to Lieutenants) never thought to rebel - especially at the beginning - against her order to accept Chakotay, one of leader of the Maquis and supposed outlaw for the Federation, as their 1st officer or even Torres as Chief Engineer?!
-> we saw what's happened when Tom Paris came aboard in Caretaker but for Chakotay and Cie, everything was ok?!
1. The insignia worn by the Maquis crewmembers were "Starfleet Provisional Ranks" not Maquis insignia. The reason these rank pips looked so different from the standard starfleet ranks was so the audience would be able to tell the difference at a glance.
2. As Chief Engineer, B'Lanna was in charge of the ships engineering staff. This meant that she needed to have the rank necessary to A) order them around, and B) be a Department Head. Being an Ensign or Crewman would mean that any of her subordinates could order her around - not conducive to running a ships crew.
3. Military officers do not "rebel" in Starfleet - they could resign in protest, but as they were stranded 70,000 light years from home that would be kind of pointless.
3A. Bringing Chakotay and his crew aboard, especially as they had just destroyed the Val Jean, meant coming into an accommodation with the Maquis crew who could be a major asset in navigating the Delta Quadrant. Either they could be enemies, friends who may constantly question Janeways lead and Guidance, or they could accept a commission in her crew. As most of them were formerly starfleet officers at one time anyway, most of them accepted.
Except for when the plot needed conflict.
The moment you realise it's impossible to establish a coherent timeline of Voyager events, since the post-"Year of Hell" Voyager existed in a universe where Annorax hadn't been manipulating history by erasing entire cultures for 300 years.
And the moment you realise our crew are predestined to do certain things, like scan a Krenim torpedo lodged in a Jefferies tube even if the person you saw do it in the original(?) timeline isn't part of the crew anymore and their reasons for doing so are totally different (Kes/Seven)
(This one is Trekwide - the Next Gen Enterprise was destroyed by a Klingon bird-of-prey causing a warp core breach in two timelines, and Spock and then Kirk sacrifice themselves in engineering to save the ship in a battle with Khan)
And the moment you realise our crew are predestined to do certain things, like scan a Krenim torpedo lodged in a Jefferies tube even if the person you saw do it in the original(?) timeline isn't part of the crew anymore and their reasons for doing so are totally different (Kes/Seven)
(This one is Trekwide - the Next Gen Enterprise was destroyed by a Klingon bird-of-prey causing a warp core breach in two timelines, and Spock and then Kirk sacrifice themselves in engineering to save the ship in a battle with Khan)
Unless the Voyager crew we start at the start of YoH came from a reality/universe very different from the one we know. For all we know, in that "original" timeline, there was no Dominion for the Starfleet to encounter in the Gamma Quadrant therefore there was no Odo at Deep Space Nine.
Somebody has probably already said about Threshold and how crazy that sh!t was. But also the episode Fury made no sense to me - I still don't know why dead Kes was angry. She was jumping out of bulkheads and screaming, the whole thing was wtf.
I know some people class Timeless as a great episode but I saw old Chakotay, old Harry, and everyone else frozen and tapped out at the end of the cold open. Still never seen the whole episode.
I know some people class Timeless as a great episode but I saw old Chakotay, old Harry, and everyone else frozen and tapped out at the end of the cold open. Still never seen the whole episode.
I have to ask why you wouldn't try to finish the episode? What was it about it that turned you off so hard?
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