Voyager is without a doubt the BEST!

[wahwahkits]

^ I've often wondered that, too. Or maybe that when they watched it, they were like 13, and they assume they will fell the same way about it now as they did then.

I mean, it's a really good show - it's not my favorite Trek but it's really good, and at times it is great. What there is about it that causes it to ellicit such hatred from people who like other Trek is inexplicable to me.

I wonder if the haters have ever seen Scorpion? They always seem to concetrate on Threshold, which although a terrible episode, is no worse than TNG's Shades of Gray or ENT's A night in Sickbay.

Come on you Voyager haters watch Scorpion pts 1 and 2, Thirty Days and Timeless and then tell me how bad it is!!!!

 

[wahwahkits]

^^ Hey JustKate, should I have put my comment in capital letters for greater impact lol

 

[JustKate]

But, yeah (or maybe "YEAH"?), I guess the other possibility is that they just didn't watch very much. That answer doesn't satisfy me - it had, even in its first season, far more good episodes than bad ones - so if that's the case, clearly they didn't give it much of a chance. Which I don't get. At all.

But then again, I don't get American Idol, either.

 

[Guy Gardener]

People, reasonable people, good people, are classified as haters, or "Bashers" just because they ask good and reasonable questions like "Where is the Borg baby?" or "How come no one remembers Barclay from season 2's projections" or "Why did Janway ignore Kes' warning about the Krenim?"?

Reasonable people asking reasonable questions used to call the the extremists out there that can't see madness and holes in logic making fools of them: "Gushers".

 

[Myasishchev]

I wonder if the haters have ever seen Scorpion? They always seem to concetrate on Threshold, which although a terrible episode, is no worse than TNG's Shades of Gray or ENT's A night in Sickbay.

Come on you Voyager haters watch Scorpion pts 1 and 2, Thirty Days and Timeless and then tell me how bad it is!!!!

Shades of Gray is better than Threshold. As much a slap in the face as it was, it didn't destroy logic, real science and fake science all in one fell swoop. On the other hand, it didn't have headlungs, so I'll give Threshold that one.

 

[JustKate]

People, reasonable people, good people, are classified as haters, or "Bashers" just because they ask good and reasonable questions like "Where is the Borg baby?" or "How come no one remembers Barclay from season 2's projections" or "Why did Janway ignore Kes' warning about the Krenim?"?

Reasonable people asking reasonable questions used to call the the extremists out there that can't see madness and holes in logic making fools of them: "Gushers".

Oh, I agree with all that. Attention to detail, sadly, was not one of Voyager's strengths, and it would have been a better show if somebody had been keeping track of that stuff. I'm no gusher.

That's not what makes a person into a hater. Haters are the ones who see NO value in the show at all. None. Even that's not so bad - everybody has different tastes. The real haters are the ones that hate it so much they cannot bear the thought - it eats away at them like acid - that other people might like it.

 

[wahwahkits]

People, reasonable people, good people, are classified as haters, or "Bashers" just because they ask good and reasonable questions like "Where is the Borg baby?" or "How come no one remembers Barclay from season 2's projections" or "Why did Janway ignore Kes' warning about the Krenim?"?

Reasonable people asking reasonable questions used to call the the extremists out there that can't see madness and holes in logic making fools of them: "Gushers".

Yes everyone asks questions about plot holes but to be honest every series has them. But the wholly unreasonable Voyager haters/bashers seem to focus on Voyagers and use them as a reason to hate the series.
I'm aware of all the plot holes but I still love the series anyway.

 

[wahwahkits]

People, reasonable people, good people, are classified as haters, or "Bashers" just because they ask good and reasonable questions like "Where is the Borg baby?" or "How come no one remembers Barclay from season 2's projections" or "Why did Janway ignore Kes' warning about the Krenim?"?

Reasonable people asking reasonable questions used to call the the extremists out there that can't see madness and holes in logic making fools of them: "Gushers".

Oh, I agree with all that. Attention to detail, sadly, was not one of Voyager's strengths, and it would have been a better show if somebody had been keeping track of that stuff. I'm no gusher.

That's not what makes a person into a hater. Haters are the ones who see NO value in the show at all. None. Even that's not so bad - everybody has different tastes. The real haters are the ones that hate it so much they cannot bear the thought - it eats away at them like acid - that other people might like it.

EXACTLY!!! Thats twice in one thread we've agreed on something JustKate!

 

[JustKate]

^ Eek!

 

[TheGodBen]

One thing that does annoy me is the people that slag it off!! Did they even bother to watch the show?

Yes, every episode.

Or maybe that when they watched it, they were like 13, and they assume they will feel the same way about it now as they did then.

Guilty. That's why I'm rewatching it now.

Come on you Voyager haters watch Scorpion pts 1 and 2, Thirty Days and Timeless and then tell me how bad it is!!!!

I've seen them all and they are good episodes. Scorpion Part 1, Timeless and Living Witness are up there with the best of Trek. However, if I buy a box of chocolates which is mostly almonds and a few delicious caramels then the almonds are still going to put me off that particular brand even though I love chocolate generally. If that makes any sense.

That's not what makes a person into a hater. Haters are the ones who see NO value in the show at all. None. Even that's not so bad - everybody has different tastes. The real haters are the ones that hate it so much they cannot bear the thought - it eats away at them like acid - that other people might like it.

I disagree. I classify myself as a hater because I sometimes make fun of the show, but it doesn't nag at me and I know that it does have some redeeming qualities. I also know that some people like it and I have no right to judge them for that. I hate it when people start threads in the Battlestar Galactica forum saying that it is crap, so I try to be more constructive in my criticisms of Voyager.

That being said, if my keyboard had a button that could erase Voyager from history then I would probably press it. Star Trek is currently a joke in popular culture and I feel that Voyager is particularly at fault. To some people being a Star Trek fan automatically makes me a Voyager fan and to me that is a stigma I could do without.

I hope this explains the position of some haters.

 

[JustKate]

^ I wouldn't classify you as a hater, GodBen, despite your thread that references that word. Maybe we need to come up with a new subspecies?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Star trek hasn't been a joke for years.

For the franchise to be a joke people have to remember that it exists.

Is it fading away or did I miss some huge blaze of glory?

Surely not Nemesis?

 

[Gotham Central]

^ I've often wondered that, too. Or maybe that when they watched it, they were like 13, and they assume they will fell the same way about it now as they did then.

I mean, it's a really good show - it's not my favorite Trek but it's really good, and at times it is great. What there is about it that causes it to ellicit such hatred from people who like other Trek is inexplicable to me.

I wonder if the haters have ever seen Scorpion? They always seem to concetrate on Threshold, which although a terrible episode, is no worse than TNG's Shades of Gray or ENT's A night in Sickbay.

Come on you Voyager haters watch Scorpion pts 1 and 2, Thirty Days and Timeless and then tell me how bad it is!!!!

I'm what you might call a hater. I think that Voyager is largely crap. I saw every episode when they first aired and then went back and gave it a shot all over again...it was admittedly not as bad as I remember but it really wasn't very good.

My dislike of Voyager comes from a couple of sources (and none of them had to do with it having a female captain...so lets get that out of the way now).

My dislike of Voyager is largely derrived from the fact that I actually watched all of the Trek that aired before and during Voyager's run. My first issue was that it was WAY TOO MUCH like TNG. The show was stuck in an outdated storytelling format. I liked TNG when it aired, and still enjoy it today. But TNG is somewhat outdated in its storytelling format. After watching DS9 develop a vast cast of well developed characters, weave intriguing arcs with drawn out consequences and generally push the envelope of what Trek could do......Voyager seemed stale. It came across like what it was, reheated TNG. If I wanted more TNG why would I not just go back and watch TNG? If you look closely, Voyager did not add anything new to the Trek mythos. With few exceptions, most of the stories could have been told on TNG. I don't like retreads.

Related to that, I absolutely hated the fact that the show largely abandoned its premise right from the beginning. Voyager was not the show that fans were promised at the begining. It utterly failed to make use of its own premise. What was the point of having a mixed crew if they were going to make them all act like Starfleet officers. The Maquis served no dramatic purpose. The lack of resources or even spacedock was totally ignored and each week we cont the same pristine luxury liner. We even got silly holodeck episodes. Throw in a "cute" character like Neelix and Borg children and you get the first Star Trek series that could have been made by Disney.

Voyager suffers from the fact that everything it did had been done before on a previous series. By the end of Voyager's run, the writers, by their own admission, were phoning it in. They totally stopped caring, and most of the cast seemed bored. Add to that the EXCESSIVE amounts of technobable, the deux es machina endings and the endless reset buttons...you just end up with a series that was just stale.

 

[Praetor]

^ I wouldn't classify you as a hater, GodBen, despite your thread that references that word. Maybe we need to come up with a new subspecies?

I agree.

Personally, despite finding a number of faults with the show, I still enjoy it.

[

Come on you Voyager haters watch Scorpion pts 1 and 2, Thirty Days and Timeless and then tell me how bad it is!!!!

I've seen them all and they are good episodes. Scorpion Part 1, Timeless and Living Witness are up there with the best of Trek. However, if I buy a box of chocolates which is mostly almonds and a few delicious caramels then the almonds are still going to put me off that particular brand even though I love chocolate generally. If that makes any sense.

That actually makes perfect sense to me.

That's not what makes a person into a hater. Haters are the ones who see NO value in the show at all. None. Even that's not so bad - everybody has different tastes. The real haters are the ones that hate it so much they cannot bear the thought - it eats away at them like acid - that other people might like it.

I disagree. I classify myself as a hater because I sometimes make fun of the show, but it doesn't nag at me and I know that it does have some redeeming qualities. I also know that some people like it and I have no right to judge them for that. I hate it when people start threads in the Battlestar Galactica forum saying that it is crap, so I try to be more constructive in my criticisms of Voyager.

And I thank you for that, because I hate when someone says 'Voyager should have been BSG.' Just because 'Voyager' had creative failings and had a slightly similar premise to 'BSG,' it's really difficult to make such comparisons because they end up being apples and oranges.

That being said, if my keyboard had a button that could erase Voyager from history then I would probably press it. Star Trek is currently a joke in popular culture and I feel that Voyager is particularly at fault. To some people being a Star Trek fan automatically makes me a Voyager fan and to me that is a stigma I could do without.

I would push the 'pick out the almonds' button instead.

 

[tomalak301]

I wouldn't say it's the best, but it is the series I've been watching a lot of when I want to pop in a Star Trek episode on DVD. Hell, I haven't seen my favorite series, TNG, in quite sometime because I've been watching Voyager a lot.

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

^ I've often wondered that, too. Or maybe that when they watched it, they were like 13, and they assume they will fell the same way about it now as they did then.

I mean, it's a really good show - it's not my favorite Trek but it's really good, and at times it is great. What there is about it that causes it to ellicit such hatred from people who like other Trek is inexplicable to me.

I wonder if the haters have ever seen Scorpion? They always seem to concetrate on Threshold, which although a terrible episode, is no worse than TNG's Shades of Gray or ENT's A night in Sickbay.

Come on you Voyager haters watch Scorpion pts 1 and 2, Thirty Days and Timeless and then tell me how bad it is!!!!

After Scorpion it was slowly downhill from that point with some exceptions

 

[iguana_tonante]

Not the biggest fan of VOY, sorry. It was mostly disappointing and/or underwhelming. It could have been great... it just wasn't. I can't say for certain if it's the worst Trek series because I find VOY and ENT to be on the same level.

I agree. I don't hate it (it would be silly), but I really wanted to like it, I tried to like it, but to no avail. It had a great premise, great promises, but it failed to keep them. It had a wonderful rack of characters, maybe the best in all Star Trek series in my opinion (the caring captain, the noble rebel, the engineer with a chip on her shoulder, the charming pilot loser, the placid bastion of reason, the sarcastic hologram, the dangerous child, the funky alien, and... Harry Kim), but the all became quite dull with time. There was no need to "be BSG" as someone wisely told, just to keep its own premise.

My dislike of Voyager is largely derrived from the fact that I actually watched all of the Trek that aired before and during Voyager's run. My first issue was that it was WAY TOO MUCH like TNG. [...] If you look closely, Voyager did not add anything new to the Trek mythos. With few exceptions, most of the stories could have been told on TNG. I don't like retreads.

Related to that, I absolutely hated the fact that the show largely abandoned its premise right from the beginning. Voyager was not the show that fans were promised at the begining. It utterly failed to make use of its own premise. What was the point of having a mixed crew if they were going to make them all act like Starfleet officers. The Maquis served no dramatic purpose. The lack of resources or even spacedock was totally ignored and each week we cont the same pristine luxury liner. We even got silly holodeck episodes. Throw in a "cute" character like Neelix and Borg children and you get the first Star Trek series that could have been made by Disney.

This is spot on for me.

I still enjoy it sometimes, and I will watch if I get some episodes' rerun. It had some wonderful episodes, too. But I just don't feel any fondness for the show.

 

[TheGodBen]

^ I wouldn't classify you as a hater, GodBen, despite your thread that references that word. Maybe we need to come up with a new subspecies?

But I like being called a hater. It makes me sound passionate and obnoxious!

That actually makes perfect sense to me.

But you and I seem to work on a similar wavelength, to everyone else it was probably gibberish.

I would push the 'pick out the almonds' button instead.

My keyboard has too many buttons already! There is a button on here to open the calculator which I never use. And just what does the SysRq button do?

 

[Praetor]

Really, my main 'Voyager' quibble (the thing that keeps it from being 'best' in my eyes no matter how much I like it) is that the premise was so clever that it just ended up not living up to it.

Here you essentially had an opportunity for a largely 'clean slate' approach equal to that of TOS without wiping out the Trekverse (ahem) with the creation of a new environment, races, and so forth, and also the angst and excitement of doing a 'Star Trek: Lost in Space' show. (The historic irony of that alone is delicious.)

The would-be writer and television viewer/critic in me is appalled that so much of 'VGR' felt like 'TNG Part II,' but the kid in me (who grew up on TNG) can't help but like it because of this, as well as its own unique virtues.

That actually makes perfect sense to me.

But you and I seem to work on a similar wavelength, to everyone else it was probably gibberish.

We do indeed, even despite our differences in opinion, we seem to grok, and I relish it, good sir.

I would push the 'pick out the almonds' button instead.

My keyboard has too many buttons already! There is a button on here to open the calculator which I never use. And just what does the SysRq button do?

Don't ask me, I still try to talk into the mouse.

"Hello, computer..."

 

[JustKate]

^ I wouldn't classify you as a hater, GodBen, despite your thread that references that word. Maybe we need to come up with a new subspecies?

But I like being called a hater. It makes me sound passionate and obnoxious! .

Well, I certainly wouldn't want to be the one to stomp on your dreams...