Voyager is the worst series.....Baloney!

[Prax]

Which brings us back to popularity as a measurement of "best or worst."

There is no best or worst. Popularity is as good a measurement as any, And wildflowers was just defending his honor(or hers)

Generally speaking if what is, is wrong then what we want does matter.

But in terms of what we are discussing it has nothing to do with gender of the character but the way the character was written.

Let's take Archer in ENT for example if instead of a male Captain we got a female Captain it would still have been an inconsistantly written role.

Can you show where Janeway is written more inconsistently than other Captains? Otherwise we're just repeating tired old myths and generalizations.

 

[Prax]

Yep, popularity is not the same as best. I can say X TV show is the most popular show on TV because it gets the highest ratings, doesn't follow that it is the best.



But this thread is VOY is the worst series so surely user ratings (i.e from IMDB) are more important a measure than a poll asking for peoples favourite. If this thread was called Voager is the least popular series balony than argument would have more merit. And yes no doubt you can find sites which will rate VOY as the highest user ratings, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter we all have our own tastes of what we like and don't like, some think things could be improved if they did this or that whilst others don't. All views are valid, IDIC.

Again, there is no best or worst. And this thread isn't "Voyager is the Worst" it's "Voyager is the worst, Bologna" or rather "Voyager is not at all the worst"

Here's another criteria: Which series was both nominated for and won the most Emmy Awards? Well, it was TNG. How about the second most?

How about Saturn Awards? Second most?
.... Voyager

 

[Prax]

BTW, Happy Mother's day to all who celebrating it!

 

[MacLeod]

Of course there is a best and worst, however what that is, is subjective.

As for awards and who won the most, it's not always as easy to break it down to simple numbers what was the competition like that year. Did something better win the award(s).

It almost seems as we are having two different conversations here, one about quality (i.e worst) and one about popularity. Just because something is very popular doesn't mean it's very good (which is subjective). Given it's box office takings Avatar was very popular, does that mean it's a great film? I would say not, doesn't mean I can't enjoy it for what it was, it also doesn't mean I don't think about ways in which it could have been made better. TNG could have better, DSN could have been better etc... So in this thread many are saying VOY could have better, what is wrong with that?

 

[fireproof78]

There is no best or worst. Popularity is as good a measurement as any, And wildflowers was just defending his honor(or hers)
.

Then the thread title is very misleading in this case

Also, my only point in this thread is that I think VOY could have been more. It was ok for what it was, but it could have been better.

 

[Prax]

Of course there is a best and worst, however what that is, is subjective.

As for awards and who won the most, it's not always as easy to break it down to simple numbers what was the competition like that year. Did something better win the award(s).

It almost seems as we are having two different conversations here, one about quality (i.e worst) and one about popularity. Just because something is very popular doesn't mean it's very good (which is subjective). Given it's box office takings Avatar was very popular, does that mean it's a great film? I would say not, doesn't mean I can't enjoy it for what it was, it also doesn't mean I don't think about ways in which it could have been made better. TNG could have better, DSN could have been better etc... So in this thread many are saying VOY could have better, what is wrong with that?

But others would say Avatar is a great film. To you it's not. To them, it is. This thread is reactionary, and was attempting to refute a seemingly popular perception-that "Voyager sucks. Everyone knows that" So Voyager's popularity was brought up in the OP. Voyager's quality cannot be gauged by you. as a standard for anyone else. If you say "Voyager is okay. It's not great" and I say "Voyager is a great show" who is right? How well can you even appraise a show with 170+ episodes? You don't even like it.

Now if Berman, Taylor, Piller, Biller or Braga, or anyone else involved say "Wow, Voyager was a great show! We really accomplished what we set out to do there" then Voyager is objectively "great."

 

[Prax]

Then the thread title is very misleading in this case

Also, my only point in this thread is that I think VOY could have been more. It was ok for what it was, but it could have been better.

The Popularity of Voyager among Star Trek Fans and the perceived popularity of Voyager presented by some Star Trek fans, and the disparity between, is the key point of this thread.

Your main point that Voyager could have been more is your main point in every post, in every thread in the Voyager forum. I've noticed this in my short time here. There's a few people who just have such a hard time that even their compliments are often given through gritted teeth, and almost ALWAYS sandwiched in between complaints. It's easy to dismiss such complaints from people who have obviously made it impossible for themselves to enjoy this show.

 

[fireproof78]

The Popularity of Voyager among Star Trek Fans and the perceived popularity of Voyager presented by some Star Trek fans, and the disparity between, is the key point of this thread.

Your main point that Voyager could have been more is your main point in every post, in every thread in the Voyager forum. I've noticed this in my short time here. There's a few people who just have such a hard time that even their compliments are often given through gritted teeth, and almost ALWAYS sandwiched in between complaints. It's easy to dismiss such complaints from people who have obviously made it impossible for themselves to enjoy this show.

Since I'm not trying to convince anyone of my own experience, dismissal is fine by me.

I can compliment VOY all day long, if that is preferred.

 

[MacLeod]

Well the EMH was the best character on Voyager as was Picardo the best actor on the show.

 

[Refuge]

I think collectively the standard of acting in Voyager was high. Right from the start too. They played off each other without a sense of a 'diva' in their presence. Even when Seven was on board.

 

[fireproof78]

The chemistry pretty the crew was pretty good. I would say that poor acting was an exception on the show.

 

[BillJ]

All the shows are hit or miss. Playing the "worst" game is foolish.

 

[fireproof78]

All the shows are hit or miss. Playing the "worst" game is foolish.

/thread

 

[Prax]

Since I'm not trying to convince anyone of my own experience, dismissal is fine by me.

I can compliment VOY all day long, if that is preferred.

You're not going to play the "oppressing my freedom of speech" card, are you?

 

[Prax]

Did anyone that Picardo visited the DS9 set for their final day of filming? Classy guy...

 

[fireproof78]

You're not going to play the "oppressing my freedom of speech" card, are you?

O_o
Seriously? I've been attempting to express my opinion and experience, and have been told that I cannot enjoy the show, e.g. "Shut up and enjoy the damn show" (my words, not any one else's).

It frustrates me that this opinion and discussion is apparently out of line, and derailing the thread. So, I am trying to find a means to communicate in a way that will not have such statements misconstrued as "hatred." Since I am not communicating myself well, I will instead work within the desired parameters to not derail the thread.

 

[Trekkin]

Did anyone that Picardo visited the DS9 set for their final day of filming? Classy guy...

He'd worked on DS9.

 

[Wildflowers]

Did anyone that Picardo visited the DS9 set for their final day of filming? Classy guy...

He really does seem like a pretty nice guy. From what I've seen on youtube it would appear he is a real gentleman.

And Prax.....thank you for defending what I've written.

 

[suarezguy]

Many viewers quitting Voyager so early on, after just one or a few episodes, may have been due sexism-the typical explanation for why TNG was more popular than DS9 and the latter lost viewers early on was just the station setting and the darker tone, Voyager was a lot closer to TNG, so a lot of viewers qutting Voyager early seems to either be sexism or they had just gotten tired of Trek as a whole.

 

[11Alive]

I think collectively the standard of acting in Voyager was high. Right from the start too. They played off each other without a sense of a 'diva' in their presence. Even when Seven was on board.

If you believe Jeri Ryan, that's in spite of Kate Mulgrew. According to her, working with Mulgrew was a real pain in the derriere because she had it in for Ryan. Garrett Wang seems to back up the story and said that Mulgrew admitted years later that she treated Ryan very unfairly.