Voyager is the worst series.....Baloney!

[MacLeod]

Generally speaking if what is, is wrong then what we want does matter.

But in terms of what we are discussing it has nothing to do with gender of the character but the way the character was written.

Let's take Archer in ENT for example if instead of a male Captain we got a female Captain it would still have been an inconsistantly written role.

 

[Refuge]

Do you think male and female have no differences?

 

[MacLeod]

Do you think male and female have no differences?

In terms of ability to do a particular job No.

 

[Refuge]

I didn't actually ask that However in terms of some jobs the traits of one gender over the other can also make a difference. Why is it wrong to recognise we are not always the same? It is not an insult or a weakness. Don't you think the 'fallout' of a woman doing a job and the 'fallout' of a man doing a job might be different?

 

[MacLeod]

The fallout from a man or woman doing a job should be exactly the same. But I have to ask what job or jobs favour one gender other the other and why?

I'll grant in some circumstances like in trauma cases one gender might feel more comfortable with someone from the same gender.

 

[Refuge]

Interesting but I don't agree with you in the slightest. Men and women are not the same and how people react to either is also different, even within the parameters of each performing the requirements of a job role to a level required. There IS variation.

Do you really think men and woman are the same?

 

[MacLeod]

Interesting but I don't agree with you in the slightest. Men and women are not the same and how people react to either is also different, even within the parameters of each performing the requirements of a job role to a level required. There IS variation.

Do you really think men and woman are the same?

Of course there are certain biological differences between the genders.

But my point is that how people react to how one does a job should be the same no matter the gender of the person. Yes perhaps as a soceity we haven't reached that stage but that should be the aim.

 

[Trekkin]

The fallout from a man or woman doing a job should be exactly the same. But I have to ask what job or jobs favour one gender other the other and why?

Today, or in Starfleets supposably prejudice-free (or at least, human-centric prejudice-free) future?

The latter is such a massive development in societal behaviour, that formulating theories flat out enters imaginationland. We don't know how any future context would impact upon people's actions and reactions, because we have no real precedent for what those contexts would even be.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

By the 24th century gender wouldn't be a barrier to stop anyone from doing anything, though someone's sex may still impact on what they can and cannot do. Gender is more in relation to social and cultural identities or labels we put on things, which is why you now get "genderfluid".

To this end Janeway's gender doesn't stop her from being a Captain, leading missions, etc, but her sex might have had she become pregnant.

 

[Refuge]

Of course there are certain biological differences between the genders.

But my point is that how people react to how one does a job should be the same no matter the gender of the person. Yes perhaps as a soceity we haven't reached that stage but that should be the aim.

It isn't just biological it is societal. How we view ourselves and how others do.. I don't want to patronise you but when you see the color red you have a reaction. When you see the color yellow you have a different reaction. Both are just shades with pigments, both can paint the house, but the outcome of how the house looks, how the house weathers, might be different. We are not going to ever be in a color blind society we just have to recognise that and aim for multi-colored houses to litter our streets.. like they do in Venice Reacting to a male doing a job well and the reaction to a female doing the same job well, should be equal in acceptance that both are capable, but the fact remains they will be different performances. In my opinion Janeway's performance as Captain of Voyager was enhanced by her being female.

 

[Trekkin]

By the 24th century gender wouldn't be a barrier to stop anyone from doing anything, though someone's sex may still impact on what they can and cannot do. Gender is more in relation to social and cultural identities or labels we put on things, which is why you now get "genderfluid".

To this end Janeway's gender doesn't stop her from being a Captain, leading missions, etc, but her sex might have had she become pregnant.

As Trip showed, in the Trek future a man very well can carry a baby without killing both of them. They can transfer fetuses into other people. Characters get sex-reassignment surgery twice, in less than a day (which apparently isn't cosmetic). Plenty of cultures, including the Feds, have the tech to incubate fetuses outside the body.

Plus, no wages and kerfuffle over paid maternity leave. No hang ups over stay at home dads. Free child care. Abortion is apparently legal and unstigmatized. There's apparently no back ups in the child placement system. From the day it's born, you can take your kid to work on the giant ass spaceship and just dump it on the nearest carer.

Then there's the alien pregnancies. Because if that's possible, then we're really entering 'who the fuck knows?' land.

Pregnancy should not mean to those characters, what it does to us. It's literally a different world. Of course, there's a reason why Trek isn't considered 'hard' Sci-Fi.

 

[Refuge]

Arnold Schwarzenegger 'Junior' 1994.

Carry on..

 

[Prax]

Arnold Schwarzenegger 'Junior' 1994.

Carry on..

There was another thread where I was going to mention that movie. I looked it up and found that it was made right before the Keiko/Kira baby episode. Now I don't remember which thread it was.

 

[Refuge]

I do that. Want to find something and spend way too long looking for it..

It's a funny movie..

 

[fireproof78]

"Junior" is an odd film that I find quite enjoyable, for how bizarre it is. It certainly isn't ranked as a "good" movie, but I have fun with it.

But, for Star Trek, "Disaster" takes the cake for baby delivery episodes.

 

[Tracy Trek]

But, for Star Trek, "Disaster" takes the cake for baby delivery episodes.

I suppose it was prior to Kira becoming Keiko's surrogate, when it was first found out Keiko was expecting. Worf had just come to DS9 and when he heard the news, didn't he say something about hoping he wasn't there the day of the delivery?

 

[USS Firefly]

I suppose it was prior to Kira becoming Keiko's surrogate, when it was first found out Keiko was expecting. Worf had just come to DS9 and when he heard the news, didn't he say something about hoping he wasn't there the day of the delivery?

Yeah he said something about being away from the station, far away.
Great scene

 

[Wildflowers]

But here is another set of figures from IMDB each shows user ratings

TNG 8.6
TOS 8.4
DSN 7.9
VOY 7.7
ENT 7.5

We tend to use facts/polls etc.. that support our view point and ignore ones that don't.

OK, so this is a little late, but hopefully better later than never.

In the first post I did actually talk about results from IMDB but without actually mentioning the name IMDB:

"I saw another poll from a site that had voyager coming in poorly but that poll was only with a few hundred voters. Then the same site had voyager doing well when it counted clicks to certain places rather than votes."

I was referring to a poll, you were referring to user ratings, and both have Voyager coming in fourth, but when it comes to IMDb popularity ranking Voyager comes in second. The popularity ranking is according to info I got from Calvin Huang in a post of his from August last year that I mention in my second (big) post.

Another big site that I didn't mention is this one. I don't where it comes when other people search with Google, as I understand Google taylors results for different ip addresses? but with me when I search "star trek" and forum, this site is the first one that is listed. And at this site, in terms of messages posted it comes in second but with discussions it comes in forth.

Through google I tried to find the Official twitter sites and got Voyager but with three or four others the results that came up were like What?

Tracey noted the figures for fanfiction.net with Voyager strongly coming in first place. I haven't looked at Archiveofourown because from my experience it usually? has less stories.

I haven't looked at tumblr. Amazon is impossible to look at for someone who doesn't work there because of different sets being put out at different times and different prices.

I think that probably covers all the main measures of popularity. Voyager comes in first place with Fanfiction.net. Voyager comes in second with Youtube, Facebook and the official Star Trek site: startrek.com. It is inclusive with IMDB, it is inconclusive with this site and it is in second place if not first with that measure of increased popularity.

For the sake of my integrity and that of my two posts I should have included the name of IMDB. It was a mistake not to.

I doubt anybody will be bothered to but if anybody wants to they can of course look into twitter, tumblr and other sites. But these figures, the facts say that Voyager is the second most popular of the series.

People may think: "No that can't be", perhaps because they've heard the myth for so long or because they happen to really overall dislike Voyager. However facts are facts. Voyager is the second most popular of the series!

 

[fireproof78]

Which brings us back to popularity as a measurement of "best or worst."

 

[MacLeod]

Which brings us back to popularity as a measurement of "best or worst."

Yep, popularity is not the same as best. I can say X TV show is the most popular show on TV because it gets the viewing figures, doesn't follow that it is the best.

OK, so this is a little late, but hopefully better later than never.

In the first post I did actually talk about results from IMDB but without actually mentioning the name IMDB:

I was referring to a poll, you were referring to user ratings, and both have Voyager coming in fourth, but when it comes to IMDb popularity ranking Voyager comes in second. The popularity ranking is according to info I got from Calvin Huang in a post of his from August last year that I mention in my second (big) post.

But this thread is VOY is the worst series so surely user ratings (i.e from IMDB) are more important a measure than a poll asking for peoples favourite. If this thread was called Voyager is the least popular series balony the argument would have more merit. And yes no doubt you can find sites which will rate VOY as the highest user ratings, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter we all have our own tastes of what we like and don't like, some think things could be improved if they did this or that whilst others don't. All views are valid, IDIC.