From my understanding, most people who dislike Voyager think Enterprise is about as bad or worse, some feel that the latter is a few hairs better and some that it's worse, so it probably is more thinking that both were too derivative of the previous shows rather than dislike of a female captain.
Voyager is the worst series.....Baloney!
- Thread starter Wildflowers
- Start date
I do think Janeway was, probably in part due to the character being the first female captain, written a little too much as a role model, with the crew and/or audience pretty much always supposed to agree with her and cheer for her, that felt like a kind of blandness. But similar blandness occurred with other character-Chakotay and Tuvok rarely disagreeing with her principles or decisions, Paris being a bad boy who was never that bad, Neelix being annoying but thinking he's loveable and only rarely getting some slight mocks. The Doctor, Torres, Seven and occasionally Tuvok were the few that stood out and tended to be more interesting.
Aren't all the Trek Captain's role models in their own way? The fact that Janeway was female should be irrelevant. Had the CO been male and written exactly the same would we view them differently? What if Picard was female and written the same way that the character was written would view them differently?
I wouldn't have.
I respected the way Janeway was conveyed as a Captain but also as a woman. I think Q made a cute comment or two about females running a ship which was actually amusing but mostly when Janeway conducted herself in the role of Captain that is what it was. She didn't have to, the script didn't have to, reference back to her gender. Pat itself on the back that she was breaking the glass ceiling. That is smug when that happens.
Yet equality should be about opportunity and deliverance and response. Not about pretending that the genders are the same. Treat them the same but they are different. Had the Voyager CO been male and written with the same dialogue it would have played differently. If Picard was female that would have played differently. Even when Genevieve Bujold played Janeway it translated differently. I really think that Janeway being female made her a better Captain for the journey Voyager made. How she related to others was enhanced by being female, just as Picard took command in the only way he could, being a male Captain. He suited his role too. Not so sure they would or should be interchangeable though. No doubt they would serve interchangeably but succeed the same.. no. It would be different.
To an extent but I think the writers took it to a greater degree with Janeway. For example I don't think she was ever as regretful about her life/past as Picard was in "Samaritan Snare" and "Tapestry".
I wouldn't have.
Are you saying a male Captain couldn't relate the way to others in the same way Janeway did? And if so why not? Surely in terms of emotions/empathy etc.. A male can express those just as easily as a female.
Sure instead of mother daughter type relationship with Seven for example, it would be a father daughter type relationship but the core essence of helping Seven rediscover her humanity would be the same.
Especially with an "evolved" crew from this era. I would expect a nurturing relationship regardless of gender.
No reason why that can't happen today.
I know it happens today, but it isn't always portrayed in media.
Well the media does like to use sterotypes for characters. But is that laziness on the media's part or on the part of the audiance who simply expect a gender to act in a certain way when potrayed. A combination of both perhaps.
Agreed.
I think Star Trek needs to move away from those stereotypes. Well, all media, but I'll settle for Star Trek
Yes that is what I believe.
In that case I'll ask again, why not?
They are not the same. Even within one gender we are not the same. However, how a male for example traverses life is complex. How he is oriented, how he views his place and rights in the world he navigates. How others react to him is also based on how they view the world and him. How for example he has placed himself in the order of things because of opportunities that might be tradition based. He might indeed view himself as being more worthy in some fields because he was readily accepted for a job that enabled him to unwittingly keep the status quo. He can't help forming his identity on all these influences just as other genders can't help it. As society changes these influences do too. That is the 'nurture' part of the equation, and given Voyager was 24th Century it is difficult to know for sure what balance the male and female genders was.. what influence it imparted.
The 'nature' aspect of nature and nurture, is the part I refuse to pretend away. Men and woman are wired differently. It plays a part in life and having Janeway as a woman in the mix created the Captain we got. Merely swapping her with a male would not result in the same story.
The 'nature' aspect of nature and nurture, is the part I refuse to pretend away. Men and woman are wired differently. It plays a part in life and having Janeway as a woman in the mix created the Captain we got. Merely swapping her with a male would not result in the same story.
Not looking for the same story.
Nope. It must all be new!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Surely in the 24th century the balance would be equal as it should be today. If someone more readily accepts a person for a job based on gender then they are the one with the problem. And yes whilst we might be influenced by external forces we can still say that influence is wrong and change.
