Vorta and Genders
- Thread starter Dingo
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I'd say the Founders designed them that way (that is, left that aspect untouched). Most species have genders. Since the Vorta are diplomats and the 'face of the Dominion', it makes their job easier if the various species they deal with find them less 'alien' and more relatable.
Well, we don't know if all Vorta are cloned. 
It may be that they breed relatively normally (besides the oversight of the Founders meddling in their genetics, of course). That said, it's often noted that Vorta have never shown any interest in families or sex, etc, so it may be that they had much of their reproductive drive "removed". Breeding might well be just a job to them- donate some DNA, grow some new Vorta. I like to assume that only some of them- those who prove the most successful, perhaps?- are rewarded with "immortality". And then there was still an original being who was, I assume, born more or less normally.
I'm guessing the Vorta are bred in testtubes or something, from DNA donated by male and female couples as directed, that they are "born" (maybe rapidly grown to adulthood like Jem'Hadar, maybe having a "childhood" of sorts) and then eventually they die as normal. Unless they are selected for important roles or they prove valuable in service, in which case that particular "model" of Vorta is kept around. The Founders don't want to waste a good one. Okay, I'm aware that Odo says in "Treachery, Faith and the Great River" that he knows "the Vorta are all clones", but we don't have to take that literally. So, basically, I assume they retain two sexes because most of them are constructed relatively normally in a manner not too far removed from their original biology. We know they've been heavily augmented and their genetic code rewritten significantly, but I don't think they were totally removed from their prior state. The real mystery to me is the Jem'Hadar- are they built from "scratch", or did they exist in a pre-Dominion state as we know the Vorta did?
PS: As for why the Founders "gender" their Vorta (because we see the Vorta, despite the possible lack of sexual identity, have male and female genders to some degree as well as two sexes), it's probably in part as neozeks says above- making them relatable. Also, it might be diplomatically necessary. Some races and cultures will have very rigid gender roles. Maybe politics or diplomacy or whatever is strictly within the realm of one sex. Would a Ferengi, for example, take a female diplomat at all seriously? Probably best to put them at ease by having a clearly "male" Vorta, no confusion. Would the people of Angel One take a male diplomat seriously, etc, etc....
It may be that they breed relatively normally (besides the oversight of the Founders meddling in their genetics, of course). That said, it's often noted that Vorta have never shown any interest in families or sex, etc, so it may be that they had much of their reproductive drive "removed". Breeding might well be just a job to them- donate some DNA, grow some new Vorta. I like to assume that only some of them- those who prove the most successful, perhaps?- are rewarded with "immortality". And then there was still an original being who was, I assume, born more or less normally. I'm guessing the Vorta are bred in testtubes or something, from DNA donated by male and female couples as directed, that they are "born" (maybe rapidly grown to adulthood like Jem'Hadar, maybe having a "childhood" of sorts) and then eventually they die as normal. Unless they are selected for important roles or they prove valuable in service, in which case that particular "model" of Vorta is kept around. The Founders don't want to waste a good one. Okay, I'm aware that Odo says in "Treachery, Faith and the Great River" that he knows "the Vorta are all clones", but we don't have to take that literally. So, basically, I assume they retain two sexes because most of them are constructed relatively normally in a manner not too far removed from their original biology. We know they've been heavily augmented and their genetic code rewritten significantly, but I don't think they were totally removed from their prior state. The real mystery to me is the Jem'Hadar- are they built from "scratch", or did they exist in a pre-Dominion state as we know the Vorta did?
PS: As for why the Founders "gender" their Vorta (because we see the Vorta, despite the possible lack of sexual identity, have male and female genders to some degree as well as two sexes), it's probably in part as neozeks says above- making them relatable. Also, it might be diplomatically necessary. Some races and cultures will have very rigid gender roles. Maybe politics or diplomacy or whatever is strictly within the realm of one sex. Would a Ferengi, for example, take a female diplomat at all seriously? Probably best to put them at ease by having a clearly "male" Vorta, no confusion. Would the people of Angel One take a male diplomat seriously, etc, etc....
AFAIK, the Jem'Hadar and the Tosk ("Captive Pursuit") were both genetically engineered from the same 'original' race. They look alike, they have exactly the same 'shrouding' ability, and they were both created - as is everything else in the Dominion - for a specific purpose.
That's a good idea; the script even made a point of noting the shroud effect was the same, didn't it?
That said, I always assumed the Tosk were created from the Hunters. The Hunter scaly forehead looks similar, their skin is similar... Is it perhaps then possible the Hunters were actually the original donors of both, augmented greatly to become Tosk and then further for Jem'Hadar? As in, rather than the Founders giving the Hunters Tosks, the Hunters made Tosks first, and the Founders actually borrowed the Tosks and adapted them further?The Vorta having gender is something I figure was left over from the time when they weren't the subjects of the Founders. Didn't Weyoun 6 say that the Vorta originated in a species that showed kindness to a Changeling? So they take the genetic material of every Vorta alive when the Dominion is founded and mix and match as needed, which is why, despite the Dominon existing for so long, Weyoun has such low numbering (though they probably 'reset' the numbering every now and then, just so they don't end up with Kilanna 92104 or Yelgrun 821045).
That and there are two genders to most of the species we've met, having two genders of the Vorta would be seen as making the Vorta more relatable to the potential subject species. They send the Vorta first, so the Vorta might be some places first direct impression of the Dominon.
That and there are two genders to most of the species we've met, having two genders of the Vorta would be seen as making the Vorta more relatable to the potential subject species. They send the Vorta first, so the Vorta might be some places first direct impression of the Dominon.
Perhaps, like with humans, the different genders have different strengths and weaknesses that make them useful for different things.
And I don't mean the sexist "women are better caregivers" claptrap, but rather empirical things like: Men are better at doing 3d relationships in their head, women are better at endurance like desert survival.
Like, perhaps that telekinesis thing is gender-linked. Perhaps the genes that control is come on the X chromosome, so it isn't possible to give those powers to anybody who doesn't have 2 Xs.
Or maybe it is just socially useful: matriarchal societies will respond better to an overlord they see as "female", while patriarchal societies will respond better to one they see as "male", so it useful to keep both genders.
And I don't mean the sexist "women are better caregivers" claptrap, but rather empirical things like: Men are better at doing 3d relationships in their head, women are better at endurance like desert survival.
Like, perhaps that telekinesis thing is gender-linked. Perhaps the genes that control is come on the X chromosome, so it isn't possible to give those powers to anybody who doesn't have 2 Xs.
Or maybe it is just socially useful: matriarchal societies will respond better to an overlord they see as "female", while patriarchal societies will respond better to one they see as "male", so it useful to keep both genders.
I'll echo what others have said about relatability. Remember, among the Vorta's roles is ambassador. Some species or individuals would be more inclined toward one sex or the other.
I very much doubt any Vortas actually reproduce sexually. That is totally at odds with the control freak Founders and their sense of order. I bet the Vorta are fully-functional though and are fully capable of using sex to manipulate others. The act would mean nothing to them, just a simple skill they perform in their service to the Founders. Imagine Eris "negotiating" with a Trek nerd. She would be a pretty effective manipulator.
I very much doubt any Vortas actually reproduce sexually. That is totally at odds with the control freak Founders and their sense of order. I bet the Vorta are fully-functional though and are fully capable of using sex to manipulate others. The act would mean nothing to them, just a simple skill they perform in their service to the Founders. Imagine Eris "negotiating" with a Trek nerd. She would be a pretty effective manipulator.
Now that its been mentioned it does seem logical that the Founders would want a relatable species for representing the Dominion in a diplomatic/trading capacity.
But the question remains, what can the Trek nerd offer Eris?
And I wonder how the Vorta would learn about the use of sex in manipulation of other species, possibly by experience and documentation. I can almost imagine a course in seduction at whatever training Vorta specialists receive before they go into the field. It's slightly disturbing.
I wonder, on another note, what other functions Vorta fulfill in the Dominion. I know they work as scientists, but I assume anything not relating to manual labor or warfare they use the Vorta for.
Now I've got a weird mental picture of a bunch of DMV employee Vorta...yikes.
But the question remains, what can the Trek nerd offer Eris?
And I wonder how the Vorta would learn about the use of sex in manipulation of other species, possibly by experience and documentation. I can almost imagine a course in seduction at whatever training Vorta specialists receive before they go into the field. It's slightly disturbing.
I wonder, on another note, what other functions Vorta fulfill in the Dominion. I know they work as scientists, but I assume anything not relating to manual labor or warfare they use the Vorta for.
Now I've got a weird mental picture of a bunch of DMV employee Vorta...yikes.
What ever the Dominion is after. A Vorta like Eris is going to be used in those situations where it is felt her charms may be effective and where the target of those charms is someone the Dominion wishes to manipulate for whatever reason. It's a good thing it was Sisko instead of Kirk in DS9-The Ship.
Eris was in the Jem'Hadar and I believe it was Kilanna that was there on the ship. And regarding your commentary on the Ship, I heartily agree. That would definitely be hilarious if Kirk were the one in charge down there on The Ship...but would've been bad for the Federation knowing his somewhat skirt chasing mentality parodied by Zapp Brannigan on Futurama...
I imagine they reproduce with a mixture of cloning, mixing genetic material from donors, and the 'normal' humanoid way...but it would all be strictly organized, creating offspring that would benefit the Dominion as much as possible.
Ooops, I got Eris confused with Kilianna.
Better question, what purpose Kilana's cleavage serve??? Kirk would've been hittin' that...
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Doesn't explain why they sent Weyoun to deal with Dukat!
Probably someone goofed at Dominion HQ. Or just aatter of seniority, or the Founders seemed to like the Weyoun line to deal with Carsassians. If Kilanna had been used that would be another half Cardassian baby Dukat fathered if Vorta were able to reproduce with other species...an odd thought.
I agree. And I wonder why the Feds didn't realize that a great way to undermine the Dominion to start attacking the basis for their social order. Figure out a way to restore the natural-species characteristics of the Vorta and if possible, even the Jems (if female Jem DNA can be re-created) as a way of dividing the loyalties of the cloned Vortas and Jems. Manufacture k-white and offer to give it away to Jems who agree to defect, or just allow Jems in the field to get their hands on it, which will undermine their loyalty to the Vorta and cause the whole command structure of the Dominion military to collapse.
The Founders' paranoia caused them to create a very brittle social and military structure. The Feds just aren't very creative thinkers if they couldn't find a way to shatter it.
Someone got their intel badly mixed up.
Or they read some of the same fanfics I have, and got the wrong impression about ole Dukey.Seriously, though...maybe the Dominion had enough respect for Dukat's intelligence that they'd figure he'd see right through a blatant attempt at seduction, or that he wouldn't live up to his end of the bargain (and I don't think he would), which makes seduction a bad strategy to use on him. The better strategy is what Weyoun successfully used: an offer to restore him to power after he'd been tossed out on his butt because of Ziyal. He must have been inwardly fuming at the injustice of it all, plus power is his drug of choice. Even sex is just an aspect of power for him.
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