Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg!!!

[JoeZhang]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

We've been told by Pocket people that they intend to leave Data dead, in order to preserve the verisimilitude of the universe and not cheapen the impact of character deaths. Of course, we've already had Tucker 'resurrected' for ENT, who was about as dead as Data (writers' intent was that he be dead, seemed to be on his way out of film, discussed as dead afterwards, but no body)... so who knows?

But of course Nemesis left the door wide up for a return with just a little use of technobabble.

"amazing Data's Neural pathways are overwriting b4s!"

"Hello Geordi".

or something like that (but stretched out to 400 pages and done by someone who can actually write (and has an interest in writing) fiction.

 

[Defcon]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

JoeZhang said:

We've been told by Pocket people that they intend to leave Data dead, in order to preserve the verisimilitude of the universe and not cheapen the impact of character deaths. Of course, we've already had Tucker 'resurrected' for ENT, who was about as dead as Data (writers' intent was that he be dead, seemed to be on his way out of film, discussed as dead afterwards, but no body)... so who knows?

But of course Nemesis left the door wide up for a return with just a little use of technobabble.

"amazing Data's Neural pathways are overwriting b4s!"

"Hello Geordi".

or something like that (but stretched out to 400 pages and done by someone who can actually write (and has an interest in writing) fiction.

Well, I doubt it would be Geordi who he would see first if B4 would become Data, since

Spoiler: TNG Relaunch

they have deactivated him and send him to Commander Maddox at the Daystrom Institute.

 

[Warp Coil]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

I've already shared my opinion of this book after I'd read it - and it seems like a lot of people on this board agree with the weaknesses and issues this novel had (seriously, what were Margaret Clark and PAD thinking?).

I'm only hoping that Christopher's upcoming TNG novel Greater Than the Sum does some damage control and finally gets the TNG novels off to a better direction. And I think we're all really curious about the Destiny trilogy at the end of the year. Hopefully things will finally start to come together after a very shaky start. The TNG and VOY relaunches thus far have been really disappointing, and I sure hope they get the help they so desperately need.

 

[JoeZhang]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Defcon said:

JoeZhang said:

We've been told by Pocket people that they intend to leave Data dead, in order to preserve the verisimilitude of the universe and not cheapen the impact of character deaths. Of course, we've already had Tucker 'resurrected' for ENT, who was about as dead as Data (writers' intent was that he be dead, seemed to be on his way out of film, discussed as dead afterwards, but no body)... so who knows?

But of course Nemesis left the door wide up for a return with just a little use of technobabble.

"amazing Data's Neural pathways are overwriting b4s!"

"Hello Geordi".

or something like that (but stretched out to 400 pages and done by someone who can actually write (and has an interest in writing) fiction.

Well, I doubt it would be Geordi who he would see first if B4 would become Data, since

Spoiler: TNG Relaunch

they have deactivated him and send him to Commander Maddox at the Daystrom Institute.

but he's been

Spoiler: spoilers about articles of the federation.

reactivited since - it's in Articles of the Federation - Maddox fought in court to have him declared as sentient

and if the writers want Geordi or whoever to present, they will make it happen.

 

[LightningStorm]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

^ Spoiler's backwards.

 

[Defcon]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

I think you have mixed up the Spoiler and what's the spoiler about.

Edit to add: Damn, that happens when you start a post, and get distracted for a few minutes.

 

[JoeZhang]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

sorry about that - I think it's wording of the box, it confuses me.

 

[trampledamage]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

The "Preview Reply" option is your friend in these circumstances.

 

[AuntKate]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Sxottlan said:

Baerbel Haddrell said:
My opinion is, it won`t work to introduce a Voyager Relaunch in which all Voyager characters or most of them find themselves on a new vessel and going on new adventures. I think the way forward is having more novels like “Before Dishonor”, meaning mixing Voyager characters together with other series.

At this point, I think the best way to go would be to split up the Voyager crew among the other series. Maybe if we're lucky, Seven will join the TNG crew. While it may not be desirable to replicate any previous relationship dynamic, she'd be a good substitute for Data.

I couldn't disagree more--with both of you. Why wouldn't it work to bring the crew back together? It worked for TOS in canon, so why not Voyager in the books? Janeway can take a demotion to captain a ship--even the revamped Voyager--Kirk did it with the new Enterprise. She can pick her crew and select former members of the Voyager senior staff--Kirk did.

It isn't hard to imagine a scenario where that might happen--perhaps other captains don't want to take on former Maquis who have arrived in Starfleet in less-than-normal circumstances or perhaps the crew just misses being together and wants to continue to work together. Perhaps there is a DQ enemy suddenly appearing within range of the Federation. Perhaps there is a mission that requires a single ship used to operating with no support or advice from "civilization."

The lack of Voyager books simply shows that the editors at Pocket books have 1) a limited imagination and 2) a prejudice against Voyager. Would you be happy if Picard appeared in a DS9 book and got killed? Or if Worf showed up in a Voyager book and got killed? Would you like to see your favorite series' characters "broken up" and inserted into novels that you have no interest in, just so they can become Borg fodder? I'm guessing you wouldn't. My hope is that this travesty will be repaired in future novels and that Janeway will reappear as a normal Starfleet officer thanks to the intervention of the Q.

Frankly, I'm completely confused and dismayed at the editors' seeming ignorance of the Voyager reader base. Go to FFN and see how many fanfic stories are posted for each series. As of this moment, TOS=1671, TNG=1515, DS9=710, VOY=4817, ENT=2988, Other (combinations or non-series Trek)=817. Out of a total of 12,518 stories (and I know fanfic runs the gamut from awful to okay), 38% of them are VOY stories! This would seem to suggest that the Voyager fanbase is alive, well, and anxious to read stories about the crew, yet it has literally been YEARS since a Voyager novel was produced.

Perhaps the Voyager Relaunch was unpopular and didn't sell well. There might be a reason for that. The Voyager fanbase is different from the other series and so the novels need to be written with that fact in mind. They like relationships, especially the J/C pairing, yet there is no effort whatsoever to mine that mother lode. And don't tell me that it can't be done--aren't Picard and Crusher a couple these days? Pocket seems to be lockstepped into a novel type and chained to a group of writers who are unable or unwilling to write in a way to appeal to the Voyager audience. My assumption is that they want to make money . . . so why not put out Voyager novels that the readers want?

It's a shame really, because even after nearly seven years, Voyager's fanbase is large, diverse, and (this may be the biggest part of the issue) mostly female. I'm not sure what anyone can do to get Pocket books to listen because to date everything has fallen on deaf ears.

But, getting back to the points others made above--it IS possible to put the Voyager crew back together and it IS wrong and an insult to the series to "break them up" so that the editors and writers can abuse and insult the characters through uneven and slanted character development. I think each series deserves its own books, and I refuse to buy another novel in any other series until Voyager gets its due.

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

[Defcon]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

AuntKate said:
I couldn't disagree more--with both of you. Why wouldn't it work to bring the crew back together? It worked for TOS in canon, so why not Voyager in the books? Janeway can take a demotion to captain a ship--even the revamped Voyager--Kirk did it with the new Enterprise. She can pick her crew and select former members of the Voyager senior staff--Kirk did.

[...]
The lack of Voyager books simply shows that the editors at Pocket books have 1) a limited imagination [...]

O.K., on the one side you want the editors to simply copy TOS, and on the other side you complain that they're unimaginative? Isn't that kind of contradictory?

 

[AuntKate]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Defcon said:

AuntKate said:
I couldn't disagree more--with both of you. Why wouldn't it work to bring the crew back together? It worked for TOS in canon, so why not Voyager in the books? Janeway can take a demotion to captain a ship--even the revamped Voyager--Kirk did it with the new Enterprise. She can pick her crew and select former members of the Voyager senior staff--Kirk did.

[...]
The lack of Voyager books simply shows that the editors at Pocket books have 1) a limited imagination [...]

O.K., on the one side you want the editors to simply copy TOS, and on the other side you complain that they're unimaginative? Isn't that kind of contradictory?

Methinks you're trying to be cute by misreading what I said.

Did I say that anyone should copy the TOS canon? Nope. I simply said that there is a precedent for such events in Trek's past, and I went on to suggest a couple of ways that the VOY crew could get back together that had nothing in common with the TOS series. It would be unimaginative to copy TOS, of course, not to mention impossible (unless Son of Kahn is around somewhere).

 

[JoeZhang]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

I think wider point is that there are lots of story reasons why the crew could stay together (and i never liked the series to start with).

I think that the ds9 relaunch is the only one I would consider as partly successful - although as a reader I'm not keen on the direction that warpath took.

 

[BrotherBenny]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Apparently the Voyager relaunch books sold very well, heaven knows why, but the editorial decision to have just a single author on that series - Christie Golden (again, heaven knows why) - means that until she finishes her other Pocket projects, there won't be any more Voyager books.

David Mack's Destiny trilogy coming out later this year is a true crossover featuring characters from all over the star trek map and will set the course for all future trek fiction, so there is actually no chance of seeing a Voyager novel until early 09 at the earliest - once we know who has survived the Great Knife Catastrophe.

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

There is one big difference between Voyager and any other ship crew series: They are Starfleet ships, ships with people who wanted to be there from the beginning. Therefore it also worked for TOS in canon. These people were together voluntarily from the beginning and although it is debatable how realistic it would be that the bridge crews change so little in passing years, I can understand that these people become more than colleagues. They become friends and to many of them (especially those who don`t have an immediate family) the ship becomes their home.

Voyager is a very different animal. Janeway became an Admiral and usually, Admirals don`t command ships. Chakotay as Captain, ok, that is fine, especially when keeping in mind that Starfleet lost a lot of captains in the war and Chakotay is qualified. If he would be a good captain is a different question. But with everybody else, it becomes more difficult. I can`t see why B`Elanna and Paris with their baby would want to rush off in a ship. I certainly don`t see why Paris would give up being a pilot, as it happened in Voyager Relaunch. I don`t see any good reason why the Doctor and Seven would want to rejoin a new crew as it was for anything that would justify a full series.

I don`t think that the Starfleet crew and the Maquis became such good friends that they want to stay together after their return. Of course there might be exceptions but in general, I very much doubt that.

Also, I like Tuvok`s part in Titan and I don`t want that to change.

I don`t think I ever said that it was a good idea to kill Janeway. No, my original point was also that there would be a huge outcry if Picard would die and I was surprised about the lack of reaction to Janeway`s death (how permanent it is remains to be seen, of course), some people even welcoming killing her off. I am not one of her fans but I respect the feelings of Voyager fans. I certainly would be completely unhappy if New Frontier`s Calhoun gets killed off, no matter in what book and under what circumstances. I do understand.

The problem with an intervention of the Q is, it sounds cheap. Q snaps his fingers and Janeway is back. Why? Because Q likes her so much? If Janeway wouldn`t have been killed, of course there would not have been any need to think of a good resurrection story! If something like a resurrection story is planned, I really hope it will be a good one!

One problem Voyager has is its uneven writing. I am female, too, and in spite of certain flaws I liked a lot of the early Voyager seasons. I welcomed J/C but then it was dropped like a hot potato. Suddenly Janeway had the idea that all she is entitled to, being a female captain, is a holographic lover! I found it sick. I found it very insulting. After everything that happened, after having returned, coming back to J/C is very difficult if you want to make it believable.

From what I heard, commercially Voyager Relaunch was a success. It sold well, at least the first two books. Another question is how much people liked what they bought. My impression is that especially after the second two-parter, the series became definitely less popular than before, a sentiment I share.

Also, you have to find writers who like to write Voyager. I think the best candidates to do that are writers who liked watching Voyager. PAD is certainly not a Voyager fan. I don`t think I ever read a comment by a professional writer admitting that they really enjoyed the series. I don`t think there is another Christie Golden around the corner. Of course also writers who don`t like a series can write good stories with such characters. To me, Voyager is so frustrating – I can see so much potential there that wasn`t used for one reason or the other.

I understand that you are frustrated and, as I said, killing Janeway off is not something I would have done, I very much disagree with it that the current Star Trek writers and editors abuse and insult the characters through uneven and slanted character development. I don`t think PAD did that in his book. He didn`t do it with Seven and I also think, not with Janeway. Her death was unfortunate but it wasn`t an insult to her character. To use the Klingon term, she certainly died well.

No, I don`t see a good way to invent a new Voyager crew how it was shown on TV. But I agree that it would be good to have more Voyager books with the old crew with books taking place during the TV series. I think there is more than enough room for that.

 

[Defcon]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Looking at it from inside the box:
Is it really reasonable to think that they even want to stay together? They were more or less forced to be together for seven years without a chance to see someone or something else. The crews of the other series always had the possibilities to do something different or just take some time off (for example Picard was able to go home to his brother or make a trip to Risa), but the Voyager people always had to stay together on the ship. Granted they had "shoreleave" on some of the planets they encountered, but in the end that wasn't something they really wanted to do. And wouldn't it be resonable for those of them with families to stay closer to earth for a while after being away from them for so long without real-time contact?

ETA: Barbel is just to fast for me.

 

[AuntKate]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Defcon said:
Looking at it from inside the box:
Is it really reasonable to think that they even want to stay together? They were more or less forced to be together for seven years without a chance to see someone or something else. The crews of the other series always had the possibilities to do something different or just take some time off (for example Picard was able to go home to his brother or make a trip to Risa), but the Voyager people always had to stay together on the ship. Granted they had "shoreleave" on some of the planets they encountered, but in the end that wasn't something they really wanted to do. And wouldn't it be resonable for those of them with families to stay closer to earth for a while after being away from them for so long without real-time contact?

ETA: Barbel is just to fast for me.

Actually, I CAN see it, that's the problem. And, really, how many of the crew need to stay? The senior staff? Janeway, Chakotay, Paris, Torres, Kim, Tuvok, Seven, Icheb, and maybe the Wildmans. We can add Naomi's dad. Naomi was happy and well adjusted in the DQ; who's to say Miral Paris wouldn't be fine in the AQ?

As far as other characters, there were very few of the lower deck crew that were ever really fleshed out in the series. I suppose the three from "Good Shepherd" and the five from "Equinox" (although they disappeared into the bowels of the ship with the Borg baby, I assume). Joe Carey was killed. There were a few recurring types, like Chell or Ayala, but they were really minor. All the rest were truly background bodies and faces. Don't forget that the Maquis were supposedly homeless and without family--Voyager could have become their family.

Keeping all the books in a "libro canon" between the series really limits what can be done with the crews, doesn't it? And it creates an ever more "incestuous" readership, IMHO. This thread alone convinces me of that. If you go back and reread this long, winding discussion, make note of how many times the problem of unknown characters or events appears simply because the book relies on previous books. When many posters complain about meeting new characters "established in the previous book" and only come to appreciate the novel after going back, that says something important. It really is a serious flaw, IMHO. I fear that the Star Trek books are rapidly painting themselves into a corner as far as novels that focus on the televised series--especially the three that share a common time period.

No new Voyager novels until at least '09? Guess I'll be buying non-Star Trek books until then.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

AuntKate said:
I couldn't disagree more--with both of you. Why wouldn't it work to bring the crew back together? It worked for TOS in canon, so why not Voyager in the books?

Who says it worked? Personally I felt it was pretty silly to contrive ways to keep the same seven people together in the same jobs for nearly three decades on end, even allowing for the gaps between movies when they might not have been serving together. Just because something was done once, that isn't automatically a good reason to do it again. In fact, it can be the best reason for not doing it again.

Janeway can take a demotion to captain a ship--even the revamped Voyager--Kirk did it with the new Enterprise.

Except there was no reason why Kirk had to do that. Admirals can command missions. There's no reason Kirk couldn't have just taken the Enterprise out against V'ger under his flag as an admiral with Decker as the captain. Indeed, he did essentially that in TWOK, with Spock as the captain. And if you want to cite precedent, that admiral/captain arrangement seemed to work pretty well on Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea for several seasons.

(Personally, I suspect the only reason Kirk got demoted for the V'ger mission was because it was the tradeoff/penalty for getting Nogura's permission to take command. Otherwise, he could've stayed an admiral. And I know that's not the explanation I gave in Ex Machina, but I've had more time to think about it since.)

So, by the same token, there's no theoretical reason why Admiral Janeway couldn't have commanded the occasional mission with Voyager as her flagship under Captain Chakotay.

It isn't hard to imagine a scenario where that might happen--perhaps other captains don't want to take on former Maquis who have arrived in Starfleet in less-than-normal circumstances

Except the Voyager crew are seen as heroes, and the Maquis tensions no doubt died down pretty quickly once the Maquis were slaughtered by the Dominion. Indeed, Cardassia's joining the Dominion would've pretty much convinced a lot of people in Starfleet that the Maquis had been right all along, or at least doing the wrong things for the right reasons. And after fighting for the Federation's very survival, I doubt many people in Starfleet would consider the UFP-Maquis tensions of the past to be very meaningful anymore.

The lack of Voyager books simply shows that the editors at Pocket books have 1) a limited imagination and 2) a prejudice against Voyager.

That's completely untrue and needlessly insulting. There are definite plans underway to continue the post-finale Voyager fiction, but various factors have put it on hold for several years. It's got nothing to do with "prejudice," just with the vagaries of the publishing business. Sometimes a book series gets delayed. Sometimes plans have to be re-evaluated and modified, and that takes time. Look at the year-long delay with Fearful Symmetry. Look at how long it took for the Rihannsu series to get completed. The last two books in that series came out over six years apart, after having originally been scheduled to come out back to back. It's only been three and a quarter years since Spirit Walk Book 2 came out. So you're really jumping the gun here in assuming that the Relaunch has been abandoned.

yet it has literally been YEARS since a Voyager novel was produced.

False. Since Spirit Walk came out, we've had the String Theory trilogy, Distant Shores, and The Mirror-Scaled Serpent exploring the VGR characters, and I can confirm there will be a VGR novel in Myriad Universes as well. That means there have been VGR novels in 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007, with one coming up in 2008. And just because you haven't heard about any plans for further post-finale novels doesn't mean such plans aren't underway.

 

[LightningStorm]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Various have said:
No Voyager Novels

I've bitch about this every chance I get. One thing people can agree on is that making Christie Golden the sole author of the series was a VERY bad idea. Some say so because they don't like her writing, some (like me) don't like it because of the ridiculous delays between novels. Pretty much anyway you slice it, it SUCKS badly.

Now, what the excuse is for novels set within the series run? I have no idea. This is actually more frustrating than the relaunch shenanigans because at least we have a reason for that even if it's a bad one.

Baerbel Haddrell said:
There is one big difference between Voyager and any other ship crew series: They are Starfleet ships, ships with people who wanted to be there from the beginning.

I agree that Voyager has a certain uniqueness when compared to the other series. However that isn't the difference I see as the potential stopping point in telling effective Voyager stories.

The stopper is that this series unlike all of the others completely and utterly wrapped up and finished the entire premise of the show. TOS, TNG, and ENT's premises were simple. Explore the unknown. This can be carried on damned-near forever. DS9's premise (before the whole war arc) was assist Bajor's recovering from the occupation, have a post at the wormhole, explore the gamma quadrant. This too can be carried on for a very long time (really until the station is destroyed and/or Bajor is destroyed and/or the wormhole closes up permanently -- so basically never). Voyager however entire premise was around a ship lost far away from home trying to get home and all the bumps and bruises they endure along the way. Well they go home, premise complete. So Voyager needs a new premise. One could go with the old Trek standby of "exlporation" but don't we have enough of those? (ENT, TTN, VGD, TNG, TOS.) I could go on with what I think a good VOY premise might be but that'd be posting story ideas... so I won't.

Baerbel Haddrell said:I certainly don`t see why Paris would give up being a pilot, as it happened in Voyager Relaunch.

I do! I see quite clearly why he'd do that. Simply put, Mothers don't own the monopoly on putting their family before their career, fathers can too. And in a world where money isn't even in the equation at all, the idea of him being a "bread winner" doesn't apply as it might in today's world.

And for the record this is not an idea I think originated in the Relaunch novels, but was expanded upon based on the TV show. I recall a scene where Tom was telling Harry that he has responsibilities now as a father and husband and can't go off doing the fun things on a whim. This to me says Paris realized it's time to become a responsible adult, and if that means shucking the fly-boy attitude (along with the actual flying it entails) then so be it.

But, never minding all of that, that's not even what happened in the Relaunch.

Spoiler: Paris in Voy-R (Spirit Walk Books)

he becomes first officer of Voyager, while technically not the pilot, I'd say he's still following his career.

Baerbel Haddrell said:
I don`t think that the Starfleet crew and the Maquis became such good friends that they want to stay together after their return. Of course there might be exceptions but in general, I very much doubt that.

Again I have to disagree. We saw on screen that they very much were more than friends, they were family. I have no doubt each of those characters would put their life on the line to save any one of the other characters. Even the ones who showed some level of conflict (B'Elanna and Seven).

Now speaking broadly, no I don't think the entirety of the ship's 100+ crew would be this way. But let's be honest here, we're all talking about the main cast not the lower decks people. And the main cast most definitely would willingly work together.

Now, going back to my original statement, I don't think they should be kept together, but if they had been I'd think it more realistic than what happened with TOS and even to some extent TNG for all these years.

Baerbel Haddrell said:
Also, I like Tuvok`s part in Titan and I don`t want that to change.

This I can agree with, completely.

 

[AuntKate]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

I didn't mean to insult the editors; I should have said that it appears to those of us who love Voyager that the editors have failed to use their imaginations to keep the crew together and have definitely ignored the series when it comes to books.

Let's review the bidding.

Since Golden's relauch, we had String Theory, three novels in a series that came out in June 2005, October 2006, and February 2006. I adored Distant Shores, which came out in November 2005, but it was a collection of short stories, not a novel. To claim that the short 1/3 of the Mirror Universe Mirror Scaled Serpent was a true "exploration" of the Voyager characters is just a little bit out there. I don't think the Mirror Universe section counts, all proper respect to its author.

Now, lets look at the other examples. The Rihannsu series spans many years, that's true. Were there NO OTHER TOS NOVELS during that timeframe? Nope. Part 1 came out in July 1984. Nineteen other novels were published, and then came Part 2 in August 1987. Some seventy novels came out, and then Part 3 and Part 4 in October 2000. Twenty-two more novels, and then Part 5 in November 2006. Yeah, the series covered lots of years, but there were many, many other novels in the meantime.

Fearful Symmetry has been a wait for the DS9 series? There have been, I'm guessing here, fifteen or twenty DS9 relaunch books (or books related to the relaunch) since 2000?

Counting Christie Golden's books, there have been five VOY novels, one story collection, and one-third of a Mirror Universe book published since June 2003. In that same timeframe, there have been about 12 DS9 books, 7 ENT books, 11 TNG books, and 16 TOS books.

In my mind, that's inexcusable, for any reason. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[Octavia]

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Christopher said:
That's completely untrue and needlessly insulting. There are definite plans underway to continue the post-finale Voyager fiction, but various factors have put it on hold for several years. It's got nothing to do with "prejudice," just with the vagaries of the publishing business. Sometimes a book series gets delayed. Sometimes plans have to be re-evaluated and modified, and that takes time. Look at the year-long delay with Fearful Symmetry. Look at how long it took for the Rihannsu series to get completed. The last two books in that series came out over six years apart, after having originally been scheduled to come out back to back. It's only been three and a quarter years since Spirit Walk Book 2 came out. So you're really jumping the gun here in assuming that the Relaunch has been abandoned.

I can't believe that I'm allowing myself to get sucked back into this, but I've never had a chance to speak to a Trek writer before. Hello, Christopher! *waves*

I don't believe that AuntKate's assessment was needlessly insulting. You certainly seem to have more information about what is going on behind the scenes than we do, so naturally the delay is explicable to you.

To me, who is not the rabid online fan that I was years ago, what I see - what the normal Trek fan sees - is quite different. From my perspective, when I head to the sci-fi section of my local bookshops (which is several times a week) what I see is a great big dearth where Voyager books used to be, while other Trek series still have theirs being pumped out like nobody's business. What I saw when I bought my last set of Trek books (Golden's relaunch series) was a storyline that I still cannot believe anyone okayed, with ludicrous plotline piled upon ludicrous plotline. I was already hanging on to fandom by a thread due to poor writing in the tv series, and this made me leave it for years. I mean bugger me. I've seen fanfic better than that! (Why aren't those writers being given chances that Golden seems so willing to squander?)

This is nothing against Golden in particular. I liked some of her earlier works, but let's not pretend that the Relaunch series wasn't fraught with problems that, from my perspective, an awake author and editor would have avoided like the plague.

From your perspective, that must seem like I'm being very unfair. But from my perspective... do you remember the old saying about insanity being seeing the same thing happen again and again and expecting different results? That is what Trek has become to me. When you give me, for years, consistently poor writing (in both tv and books) and what appears to be a much bigger disinterest in Voyager by said writers, as exhibited by the lack of Voyager books in my local bookstores, then it is insanity for me to continue to expect that suddenly production will ramp up and quality will improve.

I mean, be reasonable, mate, for the love of God. Can you see any possible universe in which, for example, Captain Picard was inserted into a DS9 novel, killed off, and the reactions of the core TNG crew were not explored? From what I have heard, the core Voyager crew response to Janeway's death in "Before Dishonor" was relegated to a single paragraph, dealing with one person. That reads like a calculated "Fuck you, Voyager fan!" No other series is treated this way. Why should I believe that motives are pure when I no longer trust in the competence of the people producing this drek?

AuntKate is dead on with her analysis, I think. Voyager fans skew predominantly female, and have a disproportionate interest in reading Trek lit - especially lit with a focus on character relationships. It's a gold mine not being catered to, and the fault there lies squarely on the writers, producers, and editors.

I used to be a rabid fan. I grew up watching Star Trek (I didn't care about being geek girl!). All my friends knew never to even think about calling when it was on tv. I bought the books, the models, the videos, the gold plated Vulcan chess set. I went to the conventions. I spent a ton of money and time on Trek, but in the end I got sick of being treated like my loyalty would stick no matter what crap was put out under the name of Trek.

I'm not an idiot, and I'm not about to keep investing in inferior products. After the appalling downgrade in writing in the later years of Voyager, I didn't bother watching a single episode of Enterprise, and I stopped being invested in the peripheral money-spinners.

When you start losing people like me, you're in trouble. And although this is going to sound big-headed, the only way to get me back is to start treating me like I have a modicum of intelligence. That means NO MORE CRAPPY WRITING! No more reset buttons. No more fucking Borg. (Hint: they stopped being scary a decade ago. The only thing they are now is wretchedly tiresome.) No more focus on flashy ill-thought out plots at the expense of the hard yards of character development. No more treating my favourite series like it's a dead elephant over whose body other Trek incarnations have open season to plunder for parts like hyenas on the Serengeti.

A little respect, seriously. It's all I ask!

Can you understand why I've kind of lost faith in the production line that is Trek? I'm not trying to get at you personally, please believe that, but I would like you to understand why I'm so unhappy about how things have been handled. I honestly don't think that that is unreasonable.