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Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg!!!

Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

8of5 said:
Allyn Gibson said:
Ian, why are you assuming that Destiny will have anything to do with "Janeway coming back to life"? Why leave that impression? You don't know that Janeway is returning any more than I do, or that guy down the street who wouldn't know Star Trek from Captain Corbett.
Just maybe because the second to last chapter of Before Dishonor has Janeway - after her apparent death - chatting to Q about her destiny. Maybe she wont be returning to life as Janeway the Human, but its hardly some wild out of nowhere idea that Janeway’s destiny, a thread left very dangling there, will be picked up in the huge crossover event which also happens to be called Destiny.

Well, I did idly wonder.
See, not only was Janeway "killed off" to much hoo-hah in the most recent TNG book that leads (bar one) into Destiny, but also Jaza was "killed off" (to rather less hoo-hah seeing as he's non-canon) in the most recent Titan novel, which also leads into Destiny.
Granted, an example of two is hardly big enough to make a solid hypothesis on, but I did wonder if there was some kind of plan to kill someone in all the various different ongoing novel series, then use that as the tie-in to bring them all together in Destiny.
 
Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Christopher said:
^^All right, I confess. The trilogy is actually called Star Trek: Tea, Earl Grey, Hot.

And Keith will be writing the tie-in, Star Trek: Klingon Empire: Raktajino.

It fits with the book title announced by Amazon.co.uk: Greater than the Sun. It could be that your book will be hotter than the one about tea and coffee which is of course just a wild guess :p
 
Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

^ Or the new anthology, Tales from the Condiment Table: Cardassia - "Yamok Sauce"
 
Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

I can't believe you guys forgot about the two part conclusion to the Drink Cylce, Romulus: Romulan Ale and Bajor: Spring Wine.
 
Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Gah! I was trying to think of a Federation drink, but I couldn't come up with of any.
 
Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

And prune juice. Can't forget prune juice.

And Saurian brandy.
 
Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

lvsxy808 said:

Well, I did idly wonder. See, not only was Janeway "killed off" to much hoo-hah in the most recent TNG book that leads (bar one) into Destiny, but also

Jaza was "killed off" (to rather less hoo-hah seeing as he's non-canon)
in the most recent Titan novel, which also leads into Destiny.

Let's see....

*checks thread title... Nope, not about Titan
*checks the oft used excuse of a book being too old to care about... nope, It was released in December 2007.
*checks for spoiler warning... missing in action. (for the record I added that to the quote it wasn't there when I read it)

WHAT THE :censored:?!??
 
Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Okay, granted. I apologise. Gone back to edit.

But if it helps, "killed off" was in quotes, so it may not mean what you think.
 
Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Christopher said:
Come on, "destiny" is hardly a rare word. You could just as easily assume that the Destiny trilogy is about the starship Ezri Tigan served on when she was joined with Dax, or that it's a sequel to The Left Hand of Destiny, Best Destiny, or Engines of Destiny. And of course "Destiny" is also the name of a DS9 episode.

[gene wilder]Destiny! Destiny! No escaping, that's for me! Destiny...[/gene wilder] :p
 
Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

And keep an eye out for the upcoming Best Density by George McFly...
 
Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Christopher said:
And keep an eye out for the upcoming Best Density by George McFly...

Yeah, but what about Marty?
 
Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

Natural said:
I'm a fairly casual trek lit fan, but being a fan of the novel Vendetta and of Peter David's writing, I figured this one would be a lock as a fun read. It turns out my expectations were far too high.

It took me a page to figure out I was reading part 2 of a series, so I went out and picked up resistance so I wouldn't be left in the dark. Despite a somewhat shaky premise and some weird characterizations, it was an ok read. But it all went downhill from there.

Putting aside for a moment the ridiculous logic that the federation would leave a massive borg cube intact and unguarded in federation space, the fact that it comes alive and eats people, ships and planets was so out there that I had to do a double take on almost every page. I mean I realize as a sci-fi fan I have the ability to suspend disbelief for the sake of a good story, but this was too much, even for me. It was laughable. I'll admit, having Janeway get owned as badly as she did was hilarious, but the entire novel is so ridiculous that I couldn't even enjoy it like I wanted to. It just felt more like a badly written fan fiction than a serious novel.

None of the characters feel right here. Picard seems right out of TNG season 1. Worf doesn't show any of his evolution from DS9. The new bridge crew are given almost no back story and have no respect for Picard right from the start. One of them appears to have a mental disorder of some sort, as he is literally furious in every scene. Are we to believe that Picard actually hand selected this sorry group? T'Lana has no growth whatsoever, despite playing off of Spock. Lady Q is just thrown in there. Almost all of the jokes feel awkward and out of character, and as a kicker, Picard forgives his mutinous crew who have shown nothing but contempt and mistrust for him throughout the novel.

The first step in trying to captivate a reader is to make the characters seem real and believable. Yet there are such gaping holes in the logic of the plot and in the characterizations themselves, that this is impossible.

I really wanted to like this one. I like Peter David's writing, I like the Borg, I like TNG. But Pete was off his game on this one. Avoid this novel unless seeing Janeway get absolutely owned is worth $9 to you.

Your comments are pretty much how I felt about it (read it at Xmas). some addition thoughts:

1) Yes it took me a while to realise that this was a sequel to a previous book - I don't think there is any indication of this at the start of the book?

2) The mutiny was a waste of paper - it had no tension because on the one side we have Picard, Spock et al. and on the other side, a cast of sketchy nobodies - well of course Picard is going to be right and get his way, as a reader we know this before we get started, so waiting for the characters to get a clue is kinda boring...

3) Totally agree how dumb it was that this giant borg cube was being studied/guarded by one ship - made no sense.

Moreover, I'm getting very bored of the borg, they have zero menace left at this stage. Why do they keep sending those single ships to destroy earth and why do they keep always take the long route rather than using their transwarp drives to just pop up in sector 001 :lol:

I think a different tack needs to be taken with the borg, for them to continue to a menace, they need to actually being successful at some level. Maybe this could involve them asslimating half of the Romulan Star Empire or attacking the Klingon empire, just something with a different dynamic.
 
Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

I am rereading the first mission of the Enterprise with Kirk as Captain written by Vonda McIntyre and it says that Kirk did not know Spock previously. So why did the Academy book (rubbish) contradict this so badly?
 
Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

JWolf said:
I am rereading the first mission of the Enterprise with Kirk as Captain written by Vonda McIntyre and it says that Kirk did not know Spock previously. So why did the Academy book (rubbish) contradict this so badly?

None of the books have to reference each other and, due to a memo that was strictly enforced by Richard Arnold for books being published, commissioned or written from 1989-1991, it was essentially forbidden.

The old TOS YA Academy books, Shatner's recent hardcover novel, and even DC Comics' first annual (written and undergoing approval at the same time as "Enterprise: The First Adventure") all disgree with Vonda McIntyre.
 
Re: Vixen tries to do Before Dishonor or: Motherf**king Borg

JoeZhang said:
I think a different tack needs to be taken with the borg, for them to continue to a menace, they need to actually being successful at some level. Maybe this could involve them asslimating half of the Romulan Star Empire or attacking the Klingon empire, just something with a different dynamic.

I think that was part of the problem with Resistance and Before Dishonor: Trying to change the Borg...again. They were more menacing because they actively kill and don't seem to wait for an irritant to arise (although that too was a problem in regards to the continuity of Resistance/Before Dishonor. J.M Dillard had an entire Enterprise security team killed off quite violently in her book, and had the Borg actively awaiting the return of the Enterprise crew, especially near the end. But, in Before Dishonor, sometimes the Borg would attack preemptively, sometimes they wouldn't. There was a lot of schizophrenic writing in this arc.)

I think one of the problems I had with these two novels was that it seemed to go away from what Starfleet and the Federation were supposed to be about post-Dominion War. How many times was it stressed during A Time to... and all the various other novels that "We just got Starfleet back on an exploration footing" or something similar? With Q&A, at least, we got part of that (and it even went back to Q's quote in All Good Things... about humanity mapping the possibilities of existence and the like). I can recall times when reading where Picard or Riker lamented not exploring back on the Enterprise-D, after the Farpoint mission. It was explained perfectly (tying back into the "Starfleet finally back on exploration footing" lines), but two opportunities almost appear squandered. I guess I'm regarding Q&A as the relaunch's Encounter at Farpoint-An Enterprise preparing to explore strange new worlds, and fulfilling that credo that every Trek fan can recite at the drop of a hat. But then we get the "pressing Borg crisis" and Starfleet and the Enterprise are moved away from exploration to "Let's settle this week's crisis, and then hopefully move on."

And yes, the Titan and her sister ships are exploring and yes there are other starships exploring. But with the Enterprise as the face of the TNG Relaunch...I don't know. I just felt that the Borg horse has been beaten beyond death and into a liquid goop seeping into the sand of the ground beneath my feet. And yet we had two more series of lashes beating into the Borg horse-liquid. Two more series of lashes that could have been used to spur on a Cardassian Aid arc, or a "Oooh, sparsely explored Alpha Quadrant sector" arc.

*shrug* I would assume that the writers and editors at Pocket Books would know better than I, a mere fan and connoisseur of Trek Lit. But these two vintages were bitter, and I await with some expectation and trepidation Greater Than The Sum
 
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