Vernal galaxy

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Falconer, Aug 25, 2021.

  1. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Lunatic Is In My Head Moderator

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    You really wanted to misuse the term "mansplaining" here, didn't you? It's okay, I'll allow it. This time.
     
  2. dupersuper

    dupersuper Commodore Commodore

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    "Visit" does imply they got to leave, so...

    The novel Vendetta more or less agrees with you (I don't recall if it says the machine says if it came from an orbiting teeny galaxy, but it does say it couldn't have come from that far outside our galaxy, what with it being fueled by planets.

    "It took us over 75 years to get here"...
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2021
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  3. Ryan Thomas Riddle

    Ryan Thomas Riddle Writer and occasional starship commander Premium Member

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    Galactic North, Miss Tessmacher!
     
  4. Mres_was_framed!

    Mres_was_framed! Commander Red Shirt

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    That is an effective explanation as to how there is not much info in the file compared to what is said in dialogue.
     
  5. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Making of Star Trek, PART i: BIRTH PANGS, Chapter 1., As It was In The Beginning, gives the text of Gene Roddenberry's original outline of his proposed new series Star Trek. It quotes from the orders to Captain Robert L. April:

    So this is another example of a reference to a galaxy, presumably our galaxy, with an unusual but scientific sounding name. Why not simply call it the Milky Way Galaxy if it is intended to be our own MIlky Way Galaxy? Maybe it is supposed to be a different galaxy, and Pineal was the best name Roddenberry could think of.

    Or maybe Rodenberry wrote "outer galaxy limit" and "final galaxy limit", or more likely wrote either final or outer and crossed it out and put the other above it as a correction. And a typist wrote both words, making it "outer final Galaxy limit" and misspelled "final" as "Pineal'.

    Or maybe humans in Star Trek, having knowledge of many alien cultures, and belonging to the same Federation as some of them, know the names that various alien cultures have for our galaxy. And maybe April's orders were written durng the month or year that Starfleet used the alien name "Pineal" for our gaalxy, and Comsol's recomendation was written the year or month that Starfleet used the alien name "Vernal" for our galaxy, to honor hte cultures that used those names.

    And it may be a coincidence that those two particiular alien names for the galaxy sound a lot like two Englaish language words and so are spelled like those English language words.

    In geometry a quadrant is a quarter of an area, but in the military a quadrant, like a sector, is just a division of an area. So having nine or more quadrants within known space should not be problem.

    The Ninth Quadrant includes Alpha Centauri and extends to the outer limit of our Miliky Way Galaxy, or possibly to the llimit of some other galaxy. As iit happens, Alpha Centauri is near the galactic equator,and about 50 degrees from the direction to the galactic center, a little more than halfway to being at a right angle to the galaxtic center. At that angle the outer edge of the galactic disc should be at least 50,000 light years beyond Alpha Centauri, So unless the Ninth Quadrant has a very narrow wedge shape it would probably include a lot more than one ninth of the galaxy.

    Refering to the discussion about whether the galaxy has northern or southern parts, in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield":

    So whether or not the real galaxy has a north and a south, the Star Trek galaxy does, although it isn't stated how it is defined or in what direction the southern part of the galaxy is. By pure coincidenc eno doubt, Alpha Centauri is in the southern hemisphere of the sky as seen from Earth.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2021
  6. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    Screen Shot 2021-08-27 at 1.32.55 AM.png

    There's that C.V. again...

    And plenty of science fiction writers don't know squat about actual science, so, no, just being a science fiction writer does not "obviously" make a person know anything about astronomy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2021
  7. Scott Kellogg

    Scott Kellogg Commander Red Shirt

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    When people have been spread out into space, they will be less Earthcentric, but by the time they get there, a great deal of the near universe will already be named by the Astronomers living on Earth.
     
  8. alchemist

    alchemist Captain Captain

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    Given the Talosian power of illusion, can we trust anything that happened on the Enterprise? Mendez was an illusion there, and there's actually deleted material where Sulu mentions that he thought he turned the ship around and headed back to the Starbase. Maybe The Keeper took the name "Comsol" from Kirk's, or someone elses, mind.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2021
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  9. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    If we want to bring my profession into this, I could be accused of ed.splaining. :whistle:
     
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  10. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    Actually that had to have been the case. I say that because at the end of the second part, you have Commodore Mendez and Starfleet Command exonerating Spock's actions and basically saying proceed as you see best.

    Everything related to the court-martial including Kirk being relieved of command because of the ship receiving images from Talos IV was all a part of that fictitious court martial which was done because Spock had related Kirk's strength of will, and both he and the Talosians thought Kirk might regain control of the Enterprise before it reached the planet - thus the entire court-martial proceeding with an illusionary Commodore Mendez to both communicate the reason for all this to Captain Kirk, as well as keep Kirk's mind on other matters as the ship traveled to Talos IV.

    Comsol was the Starfleet Admiral who signed the report, so when the Talosians looked into Kirk's mind for relatable source material, they saw that as a valid name for a Starfleet Admiral and one that Kirk would recognize.
     
  11. Scott Kellogg

    Scott Kellogg Commander Red Shirt

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    "Comsol" sounds like a military abbreviation like:
    ComCruDesPac (Command Cruisers & Destroyers Pacific)
    Comsol could be "Command Solar Forces" (Solar as in our home star, Sol.)
     
  12. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    FWIW John D.F. Black's original and scrapped attempt at the "envelope" episode ("From the First Day To the Last") leaned heavily into the UESPA lingo, replaced by "Starfleet" in the Roddenberry version.
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Worf In the 23rd Century Premium Member

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    I'm pretty sure its a galaxy named for noted astronomer Professor Vernon V. Vernal V.
     
  14. 1001001

    1001001 Ready for the Laughing Gas Moderator

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    Vernal, adj. possessing and/or displaying the qualities of Verna.

    14338FA8-FEAF-41D8-BF85-26F03AFBF15A.jpeg

    “Her ability to manipulate her daughter was absolutely Vernal.”
     
  15. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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  16. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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  17. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Or more likely "Commander Sol Sector".

    This discussion caused me to look up a copy of the Eric Frank Russell short story "Allamagoosa", which has several messages from superiors in the Earth space navy to the protagonists.

    The first and second mesages are signed

    :
    That is obviously short for Feldman, Navy Operations Command, Siriius Sector.

    The next two are signed:

     
  18. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Quoted for truth.
     
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  19. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The events of "The Menagerie" or "The Cage" have precious little to do with Sol, so we might be better off interpreting "COMSOL" as a name after all. But we can always also assume it's Commander, Starfleet Office of Legalities.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  20. IMC Headquarters

    IMC Headquarters Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    There must be more than one Science Officer Spock in the fleet! Our Spock is the half-Vulcan one, as listed and differentiated in the aforementioned document.

    What could the others be? An Andorian, perhaps? Sarek's disgust must run deep, giving his mixed heritage son an Andorian name...