No, I read it. I just don't agree.
Spoilers Variety Article on Patrick Stewart's Return
- Thread starter Tuskin38
- Start date
Allegory was what allowed the original Star Trek to tell the stories it did. It could criticize without being openly critical in a way that would piss off the network and advertisers.
Exactly. Star Trek did what it could because of the framework it set up.
Also, it needs to be recognized that the Federation is a changed place. Acting like it would still be the same from TNG post Wolf-359, Dominion War and the Battle of Sector 001 (First Contact) is short sighted, at best.
Star Trek has repeatedly shown that humans are still failable and capable of making mistakes. TOS Federation is hardly utopian. TNG utopia often struggles with corrupted officials, fear driving decisions, and highly reactionary officers.
To me, it is not outside the realm of possibility that the trauma experienced through the various wars would strain many in the Federation, to the point of isolationist, distrust, and protectionist.
The Federation is reflecting the US today. The point they're trying to make is worth more than some fanboy's United Federation of Safe Space.
Good point. Terrible movie.
It really could be seen post Wolf-359. The Federation was experiencing existential threats on a much larger level than just the Klingons or other local powers.
No disagreement there. Just pointing out a relevant scene.
^^^
I think you really need to watch more of TOS. In the large scheme of things the 'Utopia' of the TNG era WAS the outlier among 55+ years of STAR TREK.
TOS was a better future were as TNG was a utopia but then DS9 came along and their take was they still had to acknowledge the utopia because it along with Voyager was very connected to TNG being that it took place in the same time period they basically tried to ground it a little by introducing things like The Maquis and Section 31 and also for the first time some points of view from a non-Federation angle via Kira and Odo and Quark and then later a growing staple of guest characters that were more or less treated as important as the series regulars.
I do disagree though that the Federation was America. I mean only in the broadest sense of using military ranks and the idea of it being a Superpower that was good and believed in Freedom and equality. I think the writers were going more for a United Nations come true but of course most of your writers are American and it's built with the American audience in mind so of course some of that also sort of impacts the show.
It just in the end not a real good analogy because it's against capitalism. The Ferengi in that way are the true America in the Berman era. The show was about embracing smart people doing smart things and also trying to solve problems without violence. None of these are things that sound anything like America in the 80's and 90's. America tends to worship the average joe or the maverick cowboy type. Not really the brainy nerds or philosopher type which is one of the things that does make it unique from a lot of American tv, especially during that time period.
Also one thing we also have to acknowledge is Picard is not going to be exploring issues like it did in the past. Trek has always explored stuff of course but it has never altered it's setting to make the setting feel contemporary so I do understand why people won't like that and I am not even sure if I like that idea because the Federation being a better future has been a reliable concept in every version of the show made so far. It's kind of like in the past you can explore any idea you want but the one thing that never changes is the Federation is good and so is humanity.
If Trek in the past had did something like what Picard I think is going to do it would be more along the lines if they said. Okay season 5 of TNG is going to be all about Operation Desert Storm. Carddisia is going to be Iraq. We will introduce a Cardiissan Hussein. Federation is going to be America and the entire season is going to be about Cardissa invading Coridan and the Federation goes to war pretending they care about their freedom but they really just want to protect their supply of dillitium crystals. Picard will be the liberal hero who knows this is wrong. We will have a bad Admiral who represents Bush and maybe Riker will be promoted and be Swartzkopt. Also the season will be 10 episodes so don't expect any other issues to be explored.
I mean I think this can be very exciting stuff but lets not pretend that it isn't just the same old approach. What they are doing if they don't make it work actually can hurt the franchise overall much like Last Jedi did to Star Wars because it is hard to walk back the idea of the Federation no longer being the good guys. I am also personally hoping they go more Brexit than Trump. Trumpism IMO has been done to death at this point. I can not think of anything really new to say about him that hasn't been done a million times already. I feel like their is lots more story potential in Brexit at this point because it does feel more complicated than Trump. Plus it really works better because the EU is a better analogy to the Federation than America.
Jason
I do disagree though that the Federation was America. I mean only in the broadest sense of using military ranks and the idea of it being a Superpower that was good and believed in Freedom and equality. I think the writers were going more for a United Nations come true but of course most of your writers are American and it's built with the American audience in mind so of course some of that also sort of impacts the show.
It just in the end not a real good analogy because it's against capitalism. The Ferengi in that way are the true America in the Berman era. The show was about embracing smart people doing smart things and also trying to solve problems without violence. None of these are things that sound anything like America in the 80's and 90's. America tends to worship the average joe or the maverick cowboy type. Not really the brainy nerds or philosopher type which is one of the things that does make it unique from a lot of American tv, especially during that time period.
Also one thing we also have to acknowledge is Picard is not going to be exploring issues like it did in the past. Trek has always explored stuff of course but it has never altered it's setting to make the setting feel contemporary so I do understand why people won't like that and I am not even sure if I like that idea because the Federation being a better future has been a reliable concept in every version of the show made so far. It's kind of like in the past you can explore any idea you want but the one thing that never changes is the Federation is good and so is humanity.
If Trek in the past had did something like what Picard I think is going to do it would be more along the lines if they said. Okay season 5 of TNG is going to be all about Operation Desert Storm. Carddisia is going to be Iraq. We will introduce a Cardiissan Hussein. Federation is going to be America and the entire season is going to be about Cardissa invading Coridan and the Federation goes to war pretending they care about their freedom but they really just want to protect their supply of dillitium crystals. Picard will be the liberal hero who knows this is wrong. We will have a bad Admiral who represents Bush and maybe Riker will be promoted and be Swartzkopt. Also the season will be 10 episodes so don't expect any other issues to be explored.
I mean I think this can be very exciting stuff but lets not pretend that it isn't just the same old approach. What they are doing if they don't make it work actually can hurt the franchise overall much like Last Jedi did to Star Wars because it is hard to walk back the idea of the Federation no longer being the good guys. I am also personally hoping they go more Brexit than Trump. Trumpism IMO has been done to death at this point. I can not think of anything really new to say about him that hasn't been done a million times already. I feel like their is lots more story potential in Brexit at this point because it does feel more complicated than Trump. Plus it really works better because the EU is a better analogy to the Federation than America.
Jason
Oh, come on. Just because they came up with a new meaning for what USS means doesn't negate the fact they chose their ships to have the same prefix in their names as the US uses. Why didn't they take HMS and create some funky new space age meaning for that?
TOS didn't really develop the idea of Earth being in a union with other alien races until late in the game. As I mentioned earlier, The Conscience of the King implies humans conquered Vulcan. Even after we learn about the Federation, it's not really depicted as a peaceful union. According to Journey to Babel, half the Federation worlds are on the verge of going to war with each other.
If there really is no money in the Federation, then that means everyone from mighty starship captain to lowly maintenance technician responsible for scrubbing the warp intake manifold valves or whatever are paid the exact same wage, which is apparently nothing. Pretty sure that's the text book definition of communism.
Okay, and what about the fact that he doesn't considered these people to be cured until after they're saluting the Stars and Stripes and embracing American values. I love The Omega Glory, but that episode pretty much proves Star Trek is about American imperialism in space.
The Omega Glory was a single episode. I would hardly say it reflected what the show was about. I do think TOS was very much more of it's time than the other shows but where modern shows used aliens and humans getting along to show how evolved they were,TOS showed different human races and gender to do it. Asian pilot,black communcations officer,Russian officer,Scotish etc. It wasn't exactly hippie inspired even though they of course did have hippies show up for a episode but it was socially conscious. It did want the suburban kids to like it though and I would say that it kind of has lots in common with Batman66 in that way. It appealed to those who were already believers in those idea's but it also wanted to tell stories in away that wouldn't offend and thus make it easier to reach kids or others who were not full into the hippie way of life. It was trying to stay mainstream even if it did also have some more noble idea's it wanted to express.
Jason
Jason
It was written to be a potential pilot episode, so clearly there was the possibility that it could have been the one to introduce the world to Star Trek.
"Conscience of the King" was basically about Nazi war criminals hiding out in Argentina.
"The Enterprise Incident" was the real-life Pueblo Incident with a happier ending.
"A Private Little War" was about Viet Nam.
THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY was a thinly-disguised riff Chernobyl, perestroika,
and the end of the Cold War, complete with a Gorbachev-like Klingon leader named, er, "Gorkon."
Star Trek has always done riffs on current events, so Brexit and Trumpism seem like fair game.
"The Enterprise Incident" was the real-life Pueblo Incident with a happier ending.
"A Private Little War" was about Viet Nam.
THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY was a thinly-disguised riff Chernobyl, perestroika,
and the end of the Cold War, complete with a Gorbachev-like Klingon leader named, er, "Gorkon."
Star Trek has always done riffs on current events, so Brexit and Trumpism seem like fair game.
The key is: will they do it well?
Well, that's always the question with any new project. The point is, it's hardly some shocking deviation from what Trek has being doing for over fifty years now.
Similar threads
