Spoilers Variety about the future of Star Trek

[fireproof78]

If one watches all Star Wars content you'll see all the ways Palpatine is trying to gain power to avoid death. He returned in the Legends EU and it was dumber there, plus Palpatine's crazy son, plus Darth Maul's resurrection, etc.

The Borg queen was a deliberate callback to her conflict with Picard, and her apparent myopic obsession. Instead of dying twice she need three times and being shot in the head.

It's useless like zombies. Its just undeniably stupid. Palpatine is not nearly so stupid and it doesn't "weaponize nostalgia ", whatever the that means.

 

[Firebird]

Man, this board is so cynical.

Is this your first time here?

Doctor Who found new fans. I see this at conventions. I don’t see why Trek can’t reach new fans.

Something I'm genuinely curious about with Doctor Who fandom is how many of those new fans are bothering to go back and watch the pre-Eccleston Doctors? Or are they only there for the new era?

 

[HotRod]

If one watches all Star Wars content you'll see all the ways Palpatine is trying to gain power to avoid death. He returned in the Legends EU and it was dumber there, plus Palpatine's crazy son, plus Darth Maul's resurrection, etc.

The Borg queen was a deliberate callback to her conflict with Picard, and her apparent myopic obsession. Instead of dying twice she need three times and being shot in the head.

It's use zombies. Its just undeniably stupid. Palpatine is not nearly so stupid and it doesn't "weaponize nostalgia ", whatever the that means.

Oh, I'll take Palpatine over the Borg Queen any day of the week, and twice on Sundays. He's deliciously Evil. It was dumb, but I still enjoyed seeing him.

I can't say the same about the Borg Queen.

 

[bdub76]

Something I'm genuinely curious about with Doctor Who fandom is how many of those new fans are bothering to go back and watch the pre-Eccleston Doctors? Or are they only there for the new era?

Some have never seen Classic. Some will go back to see references.

And fans will skip Doctors as well and come back. It’s okay to hate on whole eras.

 

[ToddCam]

Some notes:

I went back and watched most of the classic Doctor Who era, and not for the sake of references.

I didn't realize anyone particularly cared for the return of the Borg Queen. I was quite done with the concept after Season 2, and really the Borg in general by that point.

What does "weaponizing nostalgia" mean? To me weaponizing is using something harmfully. And to literally weaponize nostalgia would be, I guess, some kind of physical weapon that assaults aspects of your brain that feel nostalgia? I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but this phrasing makes no sense to me.

 

[Danja]

Paramount is leaning towards Skydance:

National Amusements and Paramount Global Close to Setting an Exclusive Window for Acquisition Talks with Skydance Media

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/pa...dance-ellison-national-amusements-1235958618/

The path forward for Paramount appears to be slowly coming into focus around a complicated deal that would call for Skydance to acquire National Amusements, which is privately held and controlled by Redstone. The enlarged Skydance would then acquire Paramount Global, which is publicly traded, in a two-step process. Paramount Global and Skydance have been business partners in film and TV production for more than 10 years. That familiarity is said to be a big factor in Redstone’s willingness to consider a transaction.

 

[El Maestro]

What does "weaponizing nostalgia" mean? To me weaponizing is using something harmfully. And to literally weaponize nostalgia would be, I guess, some kind of physical weapon that assaults aspects of your brain that feel nostalgia? I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but this phrasing makes no sense to me.

ironically, this is part of the real “memberberries” definition that they were going for (but ultimately abandoned) in South Park. The idea was before the 2016 election: the Memberberries were using nostalgia to anger the populace much like real life bad actors and fascists do: “your life was great back then, remember it? It’s worse now, and it’s these peoples’ fault…” to help elect the Trump stand-in character. It never really came to fruition in the show because they abandoned the storyline because they didn’t in a million years think Trump would win so they had no plan for the story if that happened. So we really don’t know where it was going but that’s what the Memberberries are, a Trojan horse for reactionary fascism. Not old geezers on the bridge of the Ent D or the Borg Queen back again like a Dalek. It’s kind of a weird and unique thing; I can’t think of another instance where the satire was outpaced by real life so quickly.

 

[El Maestro]

Paramount is leaning towards Skydance:

Probably a “better” case scenario for Trek than some of the others floating out there….

 

[fireproof78]

didn't realize anyone particularly cared for the return of the Borg Queen. I was quite done with the concept after Season 2, and really the Borg in general by that point.

Indeed yes. It demonstrates an odd stuck place of Trek lore that is somehow celebrated.

What does "weaponizing nostalgia" mean? To me weaponizing is using something harmfully. And to literally weaponize nostalgia would be, I guess, some kind of physical weapon that assaults aspects of your brain that feel nostalgia? I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but this phrasing makes no sense to me.

Yup, me too.

 

[bdub76]

I’m okay with fan service as long as it’s done well. It shouldn’t prevent a causal viewer from enjoying the content.

 

[fireproof78]

I’m okay with fan service as long as it’s done well. It shouldn’t prevent a causal viewer from enjoying the content.

I do not either if (and this is a big IF) it is not the sole purpose of the story and does not distract from the story. Set dressing and designs, and names can all work in naturally to the dialog. The story grinding to a halt to acknowledge all the past history, or ships, or random insertions? That will make me more critical, because then it's no longer about the characters or story I signed up to watch but about the history of the franchise.

 

[CorporalClegg]

They were both dumb as dog shit.

Exactly this.

I do not either if (and this is a big IF) it is not the sole purpose of the story and does not distract from the story. Set dressing and designs, and names can all work in naturally to the dialog. The story grinding to a halt to acknowledge all the past history, or ships, or random insertions? That will make me more critical, because then it's no longer about the characters or story I signed up to watch but about the history of the franchise.

Yes.

And I can almost guarantee that Picard season 3 started like this in the writers' room:

*Picard and Crusher have a son.
*Enterprise D vs. Alice Krige.
*Borg/Founders team-up.

And they worked backward from there. Those three things where the whole purpose of the story. And they're puerile and trite as fuck.

 

[Noname Given]

I don't think it's just Trek.
I've got two children still living in the house. One is 15, the other is 10.
Trying to get them to watch anything with me is like pulling teeth. What they like is few and far between. Comic book movies, Ghostbusters, Star Trek, nature shows, sitcoms, Star Wars, and on and on, they just won't.
So what do they watch? YouTubers, TikToks, things like that. It infuriates me, but that's also pretty common amongst the younger generation. The good news? They might eventually find their way to Trek.
My oldest daughter, who's a grad student at UF, just asked me to make a list for her of how to watch Star Trek in chronological order. She wants to get through as much as she can before going on the Star Trek cruise next year with me and her mother.
Likewise, my youngest kids will often get pulled in when I just have it on in the background. My youbgest daughter loves the music from Subspace Rhapsody. My son enjoys Lower Decks when I have it on.
So, maybe, in a few years they will come around. But what Frakes is describing? That's not new. When I was in the sixth grade going to conventions in the 90s, I barely saw anyone there my own age. It was all adults. And yet, those fans must have been somewhere because there are a LOT of people watching Trek now who are in they're 40s. But if you asked Frakes that same question in 1996, you'd have gotten the same answer. So... we will see what the future holds. But certainly, anecdotal evidence isn't reason to stop productions.
And as far as reviews of Prodigy go, how many 9 year Olds are leaving reviews of anything on Rotten Tomatoes or IMDB?

Remember - Not everyone who watches and like Star Trek is going to bother to go to a Convention. In my day, you often went to conventions just for the Dealers Room, or to see some 'lost'/'hidden' footage. Seeing an actor or two talk in person was nice; but honestly, for them it's a gig - and yes, they LIKE fandom because it keeps them employed, and they may even like a lot of the work they get to do - but they ARE ACTORS and even in public they have a 'persona' they project; so you're never going to really get to know them or be real friends at a convention (and yes, there's always an exception here or there.)

But my point?

- With all the online shopping available, you DON'T need to go to a Convention to find that piece of fandom you want (be it a prop replica, costume, etc.) <-- You can search and find it online somewhere and yes, it may take some work to verify it before you buy (where possible), but it can all be found from your house and sent to you.

- Same with most 'hidden/lost' footage. Some Youtuber or Tic Tocker is going to find it and post it, so no need to leave the comfort of yo9ur house.

The people who still go to Cons are the true 'hardcore' fandom <-- And Paramount (and Kurtzman) isn't too worried about engaging that fandom because they STAY engaged in their own way. As long as Paramount and Kurtzman throw us an occasional interesting easter egg or nostalgic scene, we're good in their eyes. Even the 'hate watchers' ARE watching, which gives them numbers - Hell, even the pirates have a source that still paying something so they can get/distribute via 'Pirate' means.

So yeah, it's why we have so much different stuff across many Star trek eras (including the new 32nd century one which is continuing with the SFA series.) They ARE trying and probably reaching 'new' fans.

Remember A LOT of TOS fans DESPISED TNG when it hit the airwaves. Many of them DID stop watching it while others hate watched and if you told them "Well, TNG is creating a new younger fan base that really enjoy it..." in 1987/88 they would have told you you're crazy.

Believe me, the current batch of Trek offerings is creating/reaching a younger fanbase, who will see many things from it as 'their Star Trek' and be raging at the (in 20-30 years or whenever) 'Nu Trek' when this current cycle ends and Trek is dormant for a few years.
^^^
And I say 'a few' because if you look at the franchise history, the longest it lays 'fallow' with no new big or small screen offering of some type has been 4 years.

If STAR TREK were still only seen by original TOS fans (like me and I was 6 when I fell in love with it in 1969), Paramount wouldn't bother spending all the money it has been spending tom make new Star Trek.

 

[bdub76]

Remember - Not everyone who watches and like Star Trek is going to bother to go to a Convention. In my day, you often went to conventions just for the Dealers Room, or to see some 'lost'/'hidden' footage. Seeing an actor or two talk in person was nice; but honestly, for them it's a gig - and yes, they LIKE fandom because it keeps them employed, and they may even like a lot of the work they get to do - but they ARE ACTORS and even in public they have a 'persona' they project; so you're never going to really get to know them or be real friends at a convention (and yes, there's always an exception here or there.)

But my point?

- With all the online shopping available, you DON'T need to go to a Convention to find that piece of fandom you want (be it a prop replica, costume, etc.) <-- You can search and find it online somewhere and yes, it may take some work to verify it before you buy (where possible), but it can all be found from your house and sent to you.

- Same with most 'hidden/lost' footage. Some Youtuber or Tic Tocker is going to find it and post it, so no need to leave the comfort of yo9ur house.

The people who still go to Cons are the true 'hardcore' fandom <-- And Paramount (and Kurtzman) isn't too worried about engaging that fandom because they STAY engaged in their own way. As long as Paramount and Kurtzman throw us an occasional interesting easter egg or nostalgic scene, we're good in their eyes. Even the 'hate watchers' ARE watching, which gives them numbers - Hell, even the pirates have a source that still paying something so they can get/distribute via 'Pirate' means.

So yeah, it's why we have so much different stuff across many Star trek eras (including the new 32nd century one which is continuing with the SFA series.) They ARE trying and probably reaching 'new' fans.

Remember A LOT of TOS fans DESPISED TNG when it hit the airwaves. Many of them DID stop watching it while others hate watched and if you told them "Well, TNG is creating a new younger fan base that really enjoy it..." in 1987/88 they would have told you you're crazy.

Believe me, the current batch of Trek offerings is creating/reaching a younger fanbase, who will many things from it as 'their Star Trek' and be raging at the (in 20-30 years or whenever) 'Nu Trek' when this current cycle ends and Trek is dormant for a few years.
^^^
And I say 'a few' because if you look at the franchise history, the longest it lays 'fallow' with no new big or small screen offering of some type has been 4 years.

If STAR TREK were still only seen by original TOS fans (like me and I was 6 when I fell in love with it in 1969), Paramount wouldn't bother spending all the money it has been spending tom make new Star Trek.

I go to cons to hang out with fans and hear behind the scenes stories. I haven’t done autographs or pictures since I turned 18. And I doubt I would have much in common with the actors. I spend most of my free time hiking and camping out.

If the average age of a con attendee is going up, then the franchise probably has a problem. At middle age when I go to a Doctor Who con, there are a lot of younger fans. I’ll be buying my tickets later this month for Gallifrey One. I go about every other year.

I am now really curious about Star Trek only ones. I’ve put off going since I really don’t like Creation. My recent Star Trek exposure has been mostly as bigger cons with some Star Trek guests.

 

[Cr0sis21]

I go to cons to hang out with fans and hear behind the scenes stories. I haven’t done autographs or pictures since I turned 18. And I doubt I would have much in common with the actors. I spend most of my free time hiking and camping out.

If the average age of a con attendee is going up, then the franchise probably has a problem. At middle age when I go to a Doctor Who con, there are a lot of younger fans. I’ll be buying my tickets later this month for Gallifrey One. I go about every other year.

I am now really curious about Star Trek only ones. I’ve put off going since I really don’t like Creation. My recent Star Trek exposure has been mostly as bigger cons with some Star Trek guests.

It's impossible for any of us to really know the raw data here. How many new fans are coming onboard? How popular are the new shows with younger audiences? How much ad revenue are the shows bringing in? How do their numbers compare to other popular shows?
We all have our own experiences that we're working with. For instance, I had a booth next to John Jackson Miller at NYCC last year. I watched him sell out his copies of the new SNW hardback he'd written, twice over. But did that mean SNW is incredibly popular? Who knows? But it's an indication at least that SOMEONE likes it.
We're all just speculating into the wind on this one.

 

[Danja]

Paramount has reached a tentative agreement with Skydance:

Paramount Global Stock Pops as Redstone Engages in Exclusive Sales Talks with Skydance Media

https://variety.com/2024/film/news/paramount-global-stock-redstone-sales-talks-skydance-1235959622/

Shares of Paramount Global soared 15% Wednesday following a report that Shari Redstone — the company’s controlling shareholder and non-executive chair — had reached a tentative agreement to sell her stake to Skydance Media.

Bloomberg News, citing anonymous sources, reported that Redstone had come to a tentative agreement to sell her stake in National Amusements Inc. to David Ellison’s Skydance. NAI holds a nearly 80% voting stake in Paramount Global. The Bloomberg report didn’t include details on price or other terms.

 

[bdub76]

It's impossible for any of us to really know the raw data here. How many new fans are coming onboard? How popular are the new shows with younger audiences? How much ad revenue are the shows bringing in? How do their numbers compare to other popular shows?
We all have our own experiences that we're working with. For instance, I had a booth next to John Jackson Miller at NYCC last year. I watched him sell out his copies of the new SNW hardback he'd written, twice over. But did that mean SNW is incredibly popular? Who knows? But it's an indication at least that SOMEONE likes it.
We're all just speculating into the wind on this one.

They should have a lot better data today than back when it was on broadcast TV. They should at least know about the subscriber to P+. And Amazon knows the buyer info for books. Lots of data selling in this stuff behind the scenes. It would be interesting to see the data.

I hope a younger audience is coming to the franchise. I watched TOS on reruns in the 80s, and then really got into TNG. With everything streaming I wonder how new fans are finding the franchise. CBS tends to cater to an older audience, so there isn’t a lot of content on P+ for 20-30 year olds. But you can watch the old stuff with ads on PlutoTV. And Prodigy is on Netflix. But that targets even younger. I enjoyed it, but I’m not sure I would have tried it out as my first Star Trek.

I guess I’m curious.

 

[Cr0sis21]

They should have a lot better data today than back when it was on broadcast TV. They should at least know about the subscriber to P+. And Amazon knows the buyer info for books. Lots of data selling in this stuff behind the scenes. It would be interesting to see the data...

I guess I’m curious.

oh, yeah, don't get me wrong. Paramount knows. Or has a good idea. But we don't. I'm curious too. But the only metric we can go by is whether the shows and movies keep getting made.

 

[fireproof78]

oh, yeah, don't get me wrong. Paramount knows. Or has a good idea. But we don't. I'm curious too. But the only metric we can go by is whether the shows and movies keep getting made.

Which is all we need to know. Does it keep getting made?

 

[Firebird]

Exactly this.


Yes.

And I can almost guarantee that Picard season 3 started like this in the writers' room:

*Picard and Crusher have a son.
*Enterprise D vs. Alice Krige.
*Borg/Founders team-up.

And they worked backward from there. Those three things where the whole purpose of the story. And they're puerile and trite as fuck.

I don't think any season of a Star Trek show has had such a hard reversal in my reaction to it than Picard S3. When it first dropped, I had the fanboi goggles on tight and loved (almost) every minute of it. These days? I think it's little more than well-funded fanfic littered with choices even I wouldn't make as a fanfic author for how hacky an fannish they are.