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USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

I rectify it by treating it as a separate continuity.

Come on, Bill. We're talking about the necessity for change. The only point of contention is whether the TOS model looked dated (and by dated, we mean identifiably and certifiably 60s, and perhaps a bit cheap by today's standards).

Some things can be true at once.

Not contradictory things, however. Something can't be blue and not blue at the same time.
 
Come on, Bill. We're talking about the necessity for change. The only point of contention is whether the TOS model looked dated (and by dated, we mean identifiably and certifiably 60s, and perhaps a bit cheap by today's standards).



Not contradictory things, however. Something can't be blue and not blue at the same time.
That things were changed for artistic and licensing reasons? I think both can be true.
 
I saw no necessity for change. :shrug:

Right, and obviously it'd be tough to ask you to show why you don't think it needed change, although perhaps showing some contemporary aircraft or spacecraft designs (real or fictional) to show that the original 1701 is still very much futuristic somehow might do it (I'm just throwing this out there).

On the other hand I think myself and others have made a case as to why the design looks stuck in the 60s and why _some_ update was necessary. Some say only texturing and a few added details is enough, others a more pronounced change, etc. I've posted some pictures of Vektor's version upthread which is a nice example of what I had in mind, though the 1979 Enterprise remains my favourite, and I think is a perfect example of how one can update the original design without compromising its essence.

I guess in the end the question is whether the general public finds it dated. My personal experience is that yes, but without an actual poll or something like that, we'd probably never know. If CBS aired Star Trek Continues, would that sell outside of fandom? I doubt it.

That things were changed for artistic and licensing reasons? I think both can be true.

Sure... but that wasn't what we were saying, was it? We were talking about the necessity of changing the design of the ship, not whether two forces were at work.

What is everyone's opinion on CGI versus a physical filming model?

I'm not a huge fan of CGI but spaceships is probably where the technology shines best. The 1979 Enterprise is probably the best we could do with physical models and cameras (along with First Contact and some shots of Generations), but the 2009 movie shows us what you can do with CGI. The question of the 1701's design aside, the texturing and detailing, as well as the lighting, is something I think you just can't do that well with a physical model simply because A) it's small and B) you have air in the studio, so you can't simulate the hard shadows of space, amongst others.
 
I guess in the end the question is whether the general public finds it dated.

I don't really care what the general public thinks. Though I bet if asked, many people who aren't fans couldn't tell which is which. Which kinda makes the general public moot. I'm not even sure how many from the general public watch the show?

This is a show directed at Star Trek fans, which is a niche group. Especially now.
 
I saw no necessity for change. :shrug:

And any change that was required for a 2017-18 HD audience and streaming image quality could be achieved by going the ENT "In A Mirror Darkly" route with the Constitution-class starships. Make her like the Defiant in those episodes but with more surface detail and modern flatscreen computer displays inside the ship. That said...that ship has long since sailed. No pun intended. The Enterprise is what she is.

We just have to do with her in our heads what we will.
 
I don't really care what the general public thinks.

Well, I think you should, since they're the ones either keeping Trek alive or sinking it. If Star Trek can't sell to the general public, it won't make money and will be shut down. Maybe you're fine with that, but I'm not, and might I remind you that the general public is what made TOS popular to begin with?

Though I bet if asked, many people who aren't fans couldn't tell which is which.

Again, we'd have to check to know.

This is a show directed at Star Trek fans, which is a niche group.

If that's the case, then it won't complete its second season.
 
And any change that was required for a 2017-18 HD audience and streaming image quality could be achieved by going the ENT "In A Mirror Darkly" route with the Constitution-class starships. Make her like the Defiant in those episodes but with more surface detail and modern flatscreen computer displays inside the ship.

Do you really think that would fly (pun intended)?

I'd think the bridge should look closer to what Star Trek V gave us; a suitable update with plenty to recall the original, but not a direct rebuild.
 
The ENT Defiant with blue glowing nacelles would have been one of the most badass Star Trek ships ever.
 
Do you really think that would fly (pun intended)?

I'd think the bridge should look closer to what Star Trek V gave us; a suitable update with plenty to recall the original, but not a direct rebuild.

Yes. Because I'm not a kid who thinks every new spaceship on television needs to look like it comes from an Xbox One game or a Ridley Scott film. It worked just fine in 2005 and would work even better now with a few more tweaks thrown in for a digital streaming program.
 
If one percent of the US population are fans, that is 3.5 million people. More than enough to keep a series going now.

They called the premiere's 9.5 million "decent". I don't know where you're getting your numbers, but 3.5 doesn't sound like it's enough, let alone "more than" enough.
 
Yes. Because I'm not a kid who thinks every new spaceship on television needs to look like it comes from an Xbox One game or a Ridley Scott film.

Is that directed at me? Why the vitriol at people who think that the new design either was needed or is aesthetically pleasing? And you isn't the general audience, which is what we're discussing.

It worked just fine in 2005

It was a nostalgia episode directed at fans, not part of an important attempt at bringing Star Trek back to television for modern, general audiences. Do you think JJ Abrams could've used what you're discussing for the 2009 reboot?
 
They called the premiere's 9.5 million "decent". I don't know where you're getting your numbers, but 3.5 doesn't sound like it's enough, let alone "more than" enough.

All-Access has four million subscribers, might make eight million by 2020 or 2021 and CBS is looking at possibly bringing four more shows out. Obviously they are doing okay.
 
All-Access has four million subscribers, might make eight million by 2020 or 2021 and CBS is looking at possibly bringing four more shows out. Obviously they are doing okay.

Sorry, how is that obvious, given what I've said?
 
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