USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

[Jadeb]

Which is an ironic statement, given that the TOS ship looks more like a model than any other Trek vessel.

There's really nothing ironic about that statement, considering I offered no value judgment on whether the TOS Enterprise looked model-like. I just said that it has movement the movie ship lacks, which is undeniably true.

The propeller effect of the TOS nacelle caps works very well for me in conveying a sense of movement. The movie warp effect, on the other hand, doesn't really convince me at all. It looks like what it is -- animated effects laid over a very static model. It's cool, but it's just as much of its time and place as the TOS effects.

 

[XCV330]

I remember seeing a clip (might have been in the 25th anniversary show) where one of the designers or production guys on TUC was talking about the fact that the engines had to be kept away from the ship because they warp space and that’s why the pylons were away from the saucer.

But then they made ships like the defiant (class) and (inexplicably) the Shran where that didn’t seem to matter any more

they also weren't watching their own movies. Where were Grissom's nacelles?

 

[Groppler Zorn]

he's not a producer/writer so what he thinks isn't canon.

He’s part of the rebel alliance and a traitor. Take him away!

If the gap did serve a purpose it’d be cool if it was a precursor to the variable geometry pylons from VOY - maybe it had something to do with an early prototype of the transwarp drive...

 

[Groppler Zorn]

they also weren't watching their own movies. Where were Grissom's nacelles?

Exactly haha! And the crew on the Grissom had no way to get to the engineering hull without a transporter probably

 

[XCV330]

Exactly haha! And the crew on the Grissom had no way to get to the engineering hull without a transporter probably

Oberth: For when you don't want to have to deal with your Chief face to face. Or have a deflector.

The sad truth about Oberth class:

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[Groppler Zorn]

There's really nothing ironic about that statement, considering I offered no value judgment on whether the TOS Enterprise looked model-like. I just said that it has movement the movie ship lacks, which is undeniably true.

The propeller effect of the TOS nacelle caps works very well for me in conveying a sense of movement. The movie warp effect, on the other hand, doesn't really convince me at all. It looks like what it is -- animated effects laid over a very static model. It's cool, but it's just as much of its time and place as the TOS effects.

I suppose the irony is that the TMP era nacelles are the only starfleet bussard collectors that don’t move in some way or other. Every other starfleet ship that doesn’t have the flat nacelles or the excelsior nacelles has some kind of red swirliness at the front. The apparent “iconicity” of the TMP design is in the minority when compared to the rest of Star Trek.

 

[Belz...]

There's really nothing ironic about that statement, considering I offered no value judgment on whether the TOS Enterprise looked model-like. I just said that it has movement the movie ship lacks, which is undeniably true.

If the TOS ship looks like a model as well, why mention the TMP ship as looking like a model?

Anyway, yes, the spinning things added movement, though they do look a bit silly and dated.

I suppose the irony is that the TMP era nacelles are the only starfleet bussard collectors that don’t move in some way or other.

1701-D's nacelles didn't move. They did glow, though. Anyway, why would they move?

 

[Groppler Zorn]

1701-D's nacelles didn't move. They did glow, though. Anyway, why would they move?

Insofar as they didn’t seem to have a mechanised thing inside them no. But they did have like a swirling gas inside them that moved slowly. There’s a thing on one of the tng bts videos where they do a lighting pass of the ship and you can see the swirlingness quite clearly.

As for why they would move I’m not as clued up on my warp field dynamics as I should be - I’ll have to read the tng tech manual again haha!

 

[Groppler Zorn]

Oberth: For when you don't want to have to deal with your Chief face to face. Or have a deflector.

The sad truth about Oberth class:

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I love lore reloaded’s views on the oberth class

Also the Miranda didn’t have a deflector either...

What’s that cat doing amongst that flock of pigeons...

 

[Belz...]

Insofar as they didn’t seem to have a mechanised thing inside them no. But they did have like a swirling gas inside them that moved slowly. There’s a thing on one of the tng bts videos where they do a lighting pass of the ship and you can see the swirlingness quite clearly.

That's interesting. Watching the whole show as a teen several times I never noticed that. I only noticed it on the 1701-E, so they did a pretty poor job of it in the series.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

That's interesting. Watching the whole show as a teen several times I never noticed that. I only noticed it on the 1701-E, so they did a pretty poor job of it in the series.

Yeh the Blu-ray upscale really helps! There’s a cool shot of it at about 20 seconds into this video:

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[Jadeb]

If the TOS ship looks like a model as well, why mention the TMP ship as looking like a model?

Because I think the loss of dynamism is the greatest flaw in an otherwise good redesign? The movie ship is pretty on paper, great in flybys, but not so convincing in motion.

 

[Belz...]

Because I think the loss of dynamism is the greatest flaw in an otherwise good redesign? The movie ship is pretty on paper, great in flybys, but not so convincing in motion.

Obviously I disagree. That it doesn't have tacky spinning things on its nacelles doesn't mean it doesn't have motion. It's shape, and especially its pylons and nacelles, give it an inherent motion that the original lacks(1). It's the one flaw in the 2009 design, and thankfully they avoided that in the DSC one. This is in addition to the incredible amount of detail, paneling and lights on the TMP model, without compromising the smooth, elegant nature of the ship.

(1) Try to imagine the 1701-D performing the pass of the 1701-E in front of the Defiant in FC. It just doesn't have the same motion, even though the movement would be the same.

 

[starsuperion]

Sarek regarded Burnham as his adopted daughter, whether he said so or not, and this was logical. He felt intense regret over what he'd done, as it truly was a terrible thing to do. The fact that you might not be able to comprehend that is telling.

Really? Please Enlighten me as to how that tells you anything about me...I'm listening...

 

[XCV330]

I'm listening...

Pointless

 

[TrickyDickie]

Because I think the loss of dynamism is the greatest flaw in an otherwise good redesign? The movie ship is pretty on paper, great in flybys, but not so convincing in motion.

Phase II has motion in the glowing bussards, though it's more difficult to see (at least in this footage). I'm not sure why they have the bussards dark in some of the footage.

I am not a fan of the shorter nacelles or the dogleg at the upper part of the pylons:

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[starsuperion]

Pointless

Exactly. That comment I highlighted was strictly meant as a snarky slight, simply because I have a different opinion o on as to how Sarek should feel towards Spock as apposed to Burnham. The events in TNG can not be ignored, considering Sarek's death in TNG and his obsession and feelings towards Spock that Picard was able to gleam from a mindmeld. So what that should "tell" you about me is that story continuity wise and logically considering this IS SUPPOSED to be the TOS universe, shows that the writers were playing fast and loose there, and to me..a long time fan, this seems out of place.

That my friend is a legit reasoning and MY personal opinion. I can comprehend the shotty writing the writers were trying to convey, and it's all about giving special treatment to their new lead character, to the detriment of another, and continuity supporting Spock and Sarek's relationship. Its as if the writers wanted to legitimize Michael Burnham to the TOS crowd, by saying.."Look! Look! Michael is a great character... Even Sarek thinks about her when he's supposedly gonna die. She's just as good as Spock!" and then of course another gimmick was inserted, the Enterprise. Another gimmick, Harry Mud. As if we needed that thread pulled as well. These gimmicks are all designed to try to legitimize a reboot that is falsely being touted and adhered to as canonical by CBS and sicofantic fanboys, who can't see the divide in the community and will downplay it all day long, because if the truth were acknowledged about their beloved STD, it would shatter their fragile view of the property as a whole.

I'm sorry, but STD is not TOS trek. Its a visual and story content reboot, with retroactive elements added to canon to legitimize its subpar stories and characters. Kinda the same thing Star Wars has done, and Marvel Comic books have also done. Make the new subpar characters somehow loved and approved by the originals to legitimize their weak creations with the fans.

 

[XCV330]

Exactly. That comment I highlighted was strictly meant as a snarky slight, simply because I have a different opinion o on as to how Sarek should feel towards Spock as apposed to Burnham. The events in TNG can not be ignored, considering Sarek's death in TNG and his obsession and feelings towards Spock that Picard was able to gleam from a mindmeld. So what that should "tell" you about me is that story continuity wise and logically considering this IS SUPPOSED to be the TOS universe, shows that the writers were playing fast and loose there, and to me..a long time fan, this seems out of place.

No. What it tells me is you are unable to simply understand the subtext of drama when it violates your preconceived ideas. You have multiple instances of demonstrating this

That my friend is a legit reasoning and MY personal opinion.

I am not your friend. Please refrain from associating us in this manner. I consider it offensive.

I'm sorry, but STD is not TOS trek. Its a visual and story content reboot, with retroactive elements added to canon to legitimize its subpar stories and characters. Kinda the same thing Star Wars has done, and Marvel Comic books have also done. Make the new subpar characters somehow loved and approved by the originals to legitimize their weak creations with the fans.

Obviously you're welcome to have your opinion on that. I disagree, but it's just a television show.

 

[starsuperion]

No. What it tells me is you are unable to simply understand the subtext of drama when it violates your preconceived ideas. You have multiple instances of demonstrating this


I am not your friend. Please refrain from associating us in this manner. I consider it offensive.


Obviously you're welcome to have your opinion on that. I disagree, but it's just a television show.

Everyone has preconcieved ideas. Since we're not friends or friendly, please remember people have opinions, and you may need to also remember that those opinions, sometimes don't come with some nefarious preconceived notions.

I can read between the lines okay enough, and it's crystal clear the allusions to my character you're making in the first statement above. I find that funny how some can see what they fear the most from people, based on their own preconcieved biases and notions. You're transparent, and I know can get triggered pretty easily. All I can say is, don't read into what people comment so much, as you said yourself..

Its just a TV show after all.

 

[cooleddie74]

Dad bod Enterprise?

I hear it once scored four direct hits on a Klingon ship in one battle.