USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

[Mirror Mirror]

Wow, so they can't tell that it's dated, but they'll magically know? Seems like your claim is unfalsifiable.

That is not what I said. What I said was they may not be able to explian why it seems dated. If ypu look at an 80's jacket and it seems dated, you might not be able to clearily pinpoint just why. You know its dated, but you might not be able to understand its a combo of stitching, material and some set design elements.

Explain why I think that the NX looks more primitive than the 1701?

I'll give it a shot. But you must look at it objectively and not as a fan.
1:The TOS ship is in the "Atomic Age/Space Age" design style. Commonly called "retro", "60's retro" and "Retro future". This is not an attack, its simply a fact. For sci-fi of the 1960s it was the style, it looked sci-fi, it looked future. At that time.
2: The design elemets, look overly simplistic and primative. Once more, not a slam, simply a fact. It does not read as sleek, but simple. Like a 1920s roadsters, sleek at the time. But with a modern eye it lacks detail, it reads as primative and simplstiv in shape and function.
3: The NX is a deign of the post Star Wars, modern style. It us "busy" and has detail, everywhere. The shapes read as more robust and complex. Its like a 1940s car vs the 20s roadsters.

They are simply two very differnt styles. You cant simply hide the Space age styling and retro does not read as future to most. if you smooth the textures of the NX or detail a texture on the TOS ship, the shape and stylings still remain

 

[Jesse1066]

What I'm getting from the explanations is meaningless terms being explained with other meaningless terms, though. "Better realized," for instance. We seem to be on an infinite regress here.

Whenever I see an argument like this, it usually ends up being founded on irreducible personal tastes.

I tend to think they should update what they have to and leave the rest alone. Who decides what needs to be updated though? Not me, certainly. Someone else's personal tastes dictate what appears in Discovery. Shockingly, we the general public do not control the franchise.
Will the argument over visual continuity ever end? I really doubt it.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

But how it is this possible? Art Deco was decades old at that point. How could these people in the 70's find this ancient style appealing?

For somone with an art degree you frankly seem to not understand art, design or trends. Deign goes in and put of fashion, like clothing, you should have been taught this.

If ypu shpw up to work dressed in cloths from the 1980s, your fashion is gonna look super dated. Even though it was on style when it was designed. Until it comes back into style, its gonna look old.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

1987

1992

1996

2005

Thank you for proving my point for me.

 

[Rahul]

In fact, after watching the trailer (and seeing the spacesuit-props, which are ALSO superiour to Discovery's), and knowing that Netflix originally wanted to create their own Star Trek series licensed by CBS (à la Marvel-deal), I have the raging suspicion this show will be a lot closer to classic Trek than expected - adapting a lot of pre-production ideas they originally wanted to use on their own Trek show, before CBS decided to make one themselves on All Access.

This is completely fabricated.

Google it.
Netflix wanted to create their own Trek series under license from CBS. They wanted to start their own service with Trek as flagship show. Getting international distribution for Discovery while paying for the entire thing was just a consolidation prize for Netflix.
Srsly, it's not as if that's a secret or anything...

 

[Rahul]

TOS is dated,looks old and looks freaking cheap. You can't just plop something from TOS into a modern show, it it does not work.

1987

1992

1996

2005

Thank you for proving my point for me.

...what?

I'm pretty sure this IS something from TOS, showing up in an 80's show, in a 90's show, and in a 00's show. If you include the deleted scenes from Into Darkness the design also appears in a 10's blockbuster movie.

And I don't remember anyone complaining about it, ever.
In fact, most people seem to agree it worked quite well, and looked pretty darn good.

 

[Noname Given]

To throw some more fuel on the fire, they also redesigned the Jupiter 2 for the upcoming Lost in Space Netflix series. Here it is. Why did they not just leave the original design?!?!?!?

Actually that kooks quite close to the design they had for it in the 1998 feature film:

 

[Mirror Mirror]

...what?

Here we have it looking, cheap, out of place, jarring and dated. Which was my point. He proved it.

 

[DanielPMonut]

Here we have it looking, cheap, out of place, jarring and dated. Which was my point. He proved it.

As fun as it is watching the two of you go in circles...

 

[Jesse1066]

For somone with an art degree you frankly seem to not understand art, design or trends. Deign goes in and put of fashion, like clothing, you should have been taught this.

If ypu shpw up to work dressed in cloths from the 1980s, your fashion is gonna look super dated. Even though it was on style when it was designed. Until it comes back into style, its gonna look old.

Pretty sure he knows that, which is why he was being sarcastic. Styles don't just come back on their own though, out of the blue. They come back because somebody brought them back. Somebody who believed that good design is good design, period, regardless of age or style.

...what?

I'm pretty sure this IS something from TOS, showing up in an 80's show, in a 90's show, and in a 00's show. If you include the deleted scenes from Into Darkness the design also appears in a 10's blockbuster movie.

And I don't remember anyone complaining about it, ever.
In fact, most people seem to agree it worked quite well, and looked pretty darn good.

People have complained about it in this very thread. They shouldn't be too hard to find.

 

[Longinus]

For somone with an art degree you frankly seem to not understand art, design or trends. Deign goes in and put of fashion, like clothing, you should have been taught this.

And how do you think this happens? By magic? Or is it caused by sunspots? Or perhaps it is by designers and artists being inspired by older styles and again doing something cool with them? You seem to have very little understanding of how art actually happens.

If ypu shpw up to work dressed in cloths from the 1980s, your fashion is gonna look super dated. Even though it was on style when it was designed.

Sure. But I'm not really a conformist, so why should I care?

Until it comes back into style, its gonna look old.

Why is this a bad thing? Star Wars designs do indeed look old, the aesthetic has been largely unchanged since the seventies, and in certain ways was retro even then. They also look hella cool.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Actually that kooks quite close to the design they had for it in the 1998 feature film:

He meant from the 1960s this one, which according to folks in this thread would look modern

 

[Longinus]

Pretty sure he knows that, which is why he was being sarcastic. Styles don't just come back on their own though, out of the blue. They come back because somebody brought them back. Somebody who believed that good design is good design, period, regardless of age or style.

Damn, you ninjaed me! But yes, very much this.

 

[Refuge]

That is cute as a button.

 

[jaime]

Here we have it looking, cheap, out of place, jarring and dated. Which was my point. He proved it.

2005 does not look cheap. You try arguing your point, but this is just your opinion. Even eighties fashions are back atm. I actually almost agree with some of your points, and understand them, but you are fencing, not debating.

 

[jaime]

That is cute as a button.

It’s an actual button.

 

[jaime]

He meant from the 1960s this one, which according to folks in this thread would look modern

It’s only slightly in the same design school as the enterprise. Rest of TOS ? Maybe. But that’s budget. Not the enterprise itself.

 

[cooleddie74]

He meant from the 1960s this one, which according to folks in this thread would look modern

Well, I wouldn't call that "modern" by any sensibility. I like it. It's okay. But it's not what I'd want to see in a 21st century reboot of Lost In Space. I know a lot of flying saucers and UFOs are depicted as having smooth surfaces with few if any details but that wouldn't be the Jupiter 2 I'd design for a modern series or film. But then this ship and the TOS Enterprise are apples and oranges, and the Enterprise for all it's pearlescent, smooth appearance as we've come to believe actually has a fair amount of surface detailing (if not anywhere near as much as the more modern versions of the ship and her successors) and a more dynamic and one might say "contemporary" look than the Jupiter 2.

I wouldn't really use the Jupiter 2 from 1965 as a comparison to help prove that the TOS Enterprise is an outdated piece of junk because they were designed for different shows and slightly different audiences and by different production designers with different directives as to what to create to achieve their respective series' vision.

 

[Refuge]

It’s an actual button.

Oh really I want one.

 

[cooleddie74]

2005 does not look cheap. You try arguing your point, but this is just your opinion. Even eighties fashions are back atm. I actually almost agree with some of your points, and understand them, but you are fencing, not debating.

Fencing and losing.