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USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

I'd have loved the TMP uniforms more if they had implemented alittle bit more uniformity, tossed the odd life support monitor, and used the sweet metal badge of the Senior Dress Uniform on all of the uniforms. Otherwise it didn't feel too off for what I'd expect a future science/exploration centric organization to use. Presuming everyone in the future is in reasonably good shape they look good on the body and in some instances remind me of loungeware/scrubs. A world/starfleet that is not remotely militant but quite the opposite. I loved the idea of the advanced comms watch that ironically is mimicked today in popular smart watches. Overall a great idea with some refinement if it wasn't attached to one of the slowest Trek films in history (thank the lord for fan edits).
 
ILM bitched and moaned about the TMP Enterprise design. Would they have preferred to work with the original? :vulcan:
Do we know what they didn’t like about it?

I know they hated the 1701D because it wasn’t designed how ILM would have designed it and the damn thing kept electrocuting everyone...

But I thought the main issue with the TMP model was that it was translucent and kept reflecting the green screen. If there was any contemporary discussion from ILM about the actual design of the TMP Enterprise it would enlighten us on the apparent dated nature of the original.

I suppose the redesign being flagged up as an actual refit in dialogue means that TMP can’t be a reboot - since reboots like Lost in Space don’t acknowledge changes from the original because the original never happened.

I think this is the first time that Trek has done such a large retcon. Other than the Borg and the romulans in Enterprise, I don’t think there have been any retcons that were as important as redesigning such an iconic ship. Unless it’s another refit - then the whole thing goes away...
 
On one hand, I really like the design of the Discoprise. Even with the bridge window. It’s far and away better than the Kelvin-verse designs.

On the other, I really hate that they replaced the original, classic, TOS Enterprise with it. Interiors (presumably) and all.

I’m conflicted.
 
On one hand, I really like the design of the Discoprise. Even with the bridge window. It’s far and away better than the Kelvin-verse designs.

On the other, I really hate that they replaced the original, classic, TOS Enterprise with it. Interiors (presumably) and all.

I’m conflicted.
To be fair I don’t mind the design myself.

Compared to the Kelvin reboot design it’s orders of magnitude better. As a reboot in and of itself, DSC would be great.

I don’t like the discoprise as a retcon of the original ship. But I’m adopting a new DSC coping strategy inspired by Oasis - “you gotta roll with it...!”

I like Pike’s uniform way more than I like the rest of the DSC unis I have to say.
 
To be fair I don’t mind the design myself.

Compared to the Kelvin reboot design it’s orders of magnitude better. As a reboot in and of itself, DSC would be great.

I don’t like the discoprise as a retcon of the original ship. But I’m adopting a new DSC coping strategy inspired by Oasis - “you gotta roll with it...!”

I like Pike’s uniform way more than I like the rest of the DSC unis I have to say.

I mean, I understand their reasoning for the visual retcon, I just think they have it backwards. They re-did the Enterprise to fit their vision of the Trek universe, when it should have been doing their show visually to fit the already established Trek universe.

I’d like the “Enterprise uniforms” better if they had used a different template instead of just dying the Disco uniforms different colors and removing the decorations on the shoulders. But that’s a teeny tiny nitpick. They do look really good.
 
I mean, I understand their reasoning for the visual retcon, I just think they have it backwards. They re-did the Enterprise to fit their vision of the Trek universe, when it should have been doing their show visually to fit the already established Trek universe.
Totally agree with this. I suppose the problem is that we know so little about the TOS universe that it was easier for them to just start with a blank slate rather than work within such tight confines.

I’d like the “Enterprise uniforms” better if they had used a different template instead of just dying the Disco uniforms different colors and removing the decorations on the shoulders. But that’s a teeny tiny nitpick. They do look really good.
Agree also - I’m not a fan of the asymmetrical design here, but I was surprised at how much I liked the Enterprise unis when I saw the s2 trailer. The Disco uniforms are my least favourite of any iteration of Star Trek but it is what it is I guess.

Mr Plinkett had it best in his ST09 review on YouTube: “they’re remaking Star Trek. They are not making *another* Star Trek”.

Granted, he was talking about the Kelvin reboot, but this is the way I’m approaching DSC. Let’s see what s2 has to offer :)
 
I'm happy enough with the Discoprise and the uniforms though I hate the stupid asymmetrical collar. I just wish the other ships in the fleet looked similar to the Discoprise in general. It's the best looking ship on the show. And I would prefer they had the tri colored uniforms from the get-go.
 
Interesting qualifiers for what constitutes big enough. No mention of set height, or room sizes. Let alone space for equipment and technology.
Yeah that’s where things start to get... murky.

But the guy makes a couple of interesting points I think - particularly when he compares it to the naval ship at the end (spoiler alert)
 
Do we know what they didn’t like about it?

I know they hated the 1701D because it wasn’t designed how ILM would have designed it and the damn thing kept electrocuting everyone...

But I thought the main issue with the TMP model was that it was translucent and kept reflecting the green screen. If there was any contemporary discussion from ILM about the actual design of the TMP Enterprise it would enlighten us on the apparent dated nature of the original.

I suppose the redesign being flagged up as an actual refit in dialogue means that TMP can’t be a reboot - since reboots like Lost in Space don’t acknowledge changes from the original because the original never happened.

I think this is the first time that Trek has done such a large retcon. Other than the Borg and the romulans in Enterprise, I don’t think there have been any retcons that were as important as redesigning such an iconic ship. Unless it’s another refit - then the whole thing goes away...

I just read this, and I think it's the most comprehensive and in-depth article that I have read on the whole situation:

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Constitution_class_model_(refit)
 
There is such a thing as objective reality and there's a way to determine it.
And yet, an inescapable element of that objective reality is the fact that it can only be perceived by us through our senses, which are not always capable of determining its nature accurately. (Even where we have more sensitive instruments with which to better measure those aspects of it that are directly observable, and/or additional mathematical formulae to describe those that aren't, these themselves must be designed, constructed, and operated by us, and the results obtained interpreted through the use of those same senses.)

A mere few morsels of food for thought:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dress#Scientific_explanations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

Fiction may not be reality, but it has its own "reality", even if it sometimes is contradictory.
Whatever "reality" it may have is anything but "objective"; even the author or artist themself can only tell you what their creation means to them, or to the particular character(s) in question. What it means to you depends on you, in the end.

I don't think the people in charge of TOS then would have that attitude, because they were professionals and don't have the fannish objections to change fans do. If fact there may be things in DISCO (and Kelvin, DS9, VOY and ENT) that they would look at and think "ooh, I wish I had thought of that!".
Quite...and some of them they even did think of, but just weren't able to effectively show at the time! Case in point: holograms on Kirk's Enterprise, both of the immersive environment and interpersonal communications varieties! Here once again, The Making Of Star Trek should be required reading for all those laboring under the misapprehension that such aspects of DSC somehow violate "Gene's Vision"!

Pg. 188:

MEN AND WOMEN ON A STARSHIP, SO LONG OUT OF CONTACT WITH EARTH AND SO LONG AWAY FROM OTHER PLANETS, TOO, WILL REQUIRE A FEELING OF FRESH AIR AND SKY AND WIND AND SCENTS. BECAUSE WE ARE, IN MANY RESPECTS, STILL ANIMALS, OUR MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL EQUILIBRIUM WILL REQUIRE THE FAMILIARITY OF THIS. MAN HAS BEEN TOO LONG A PART OF EARTH TO BE TOO LONG SEPARATED. THEREFORE WE INTEND TO BUILD A SIMULATED 'OUTDOOR' RECREATION AREA WHICH GIVES A REALISTIC FEELING OF SKY, BREEZES, PLANTS, FOUNTAINS, AND SO FORTH. ONE OF THE REASONS FOR MAKING A STARSHIP SO LARGE WOULD BE TO HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS...
Pg. 190:

The fourth major facility on the eighth deck level is the entertainment center. Certainly man of the future will require entertainment as much as we enjoy motion pictures and television today. Probably entertainment will be three-dimensional in nature and perhaps will go even further, in that you will sit in the room and the story will take place all around you. In other words, a sophisticated extension of holography.

This technique will also have its effect on the traditional "mail call." Instead of receiving a letter, a man can sit in the room and, via tape, actually "see" the person sending the correspondence. As the tape is projected, the images will form in the air in front of him, so he will be able to see how his child looks, what's happening to the house, and how great his grandmother looked that day. It will be just as if he were standing there with them. Having used the "projecting unit," he can then use the "photographing unit," do a similar thing himself, and send it home...

And note how in "The Return of the Archons" (TOS), Kirk and Spock attempt to converse in real time with Landru's projection even after they realize that's what it is, as if this is a concept they are well familiar with, finding only the lack of identifiable apparatus producing it to be a novelty:

LANDRU: I am Landru.
SPOCK: Projection, Captain. Unreal.
KIRK: But beautiful, Mister Spock, with no apparatus at this end.
LANDRU: You have come as destroyers. You bring an infection.
KIRK: You are holding my ship. I demand that you release it.
LANDRU: You have come to a world without hate, without fear, without conflict. No war, no disease, no crime. None of the ancient evils. Landru seeks tranquillity. Peace for all. The universal good.
KIRK: We mean you no harm. Ours is a mission of peace and good will.
LANDRU: The good must transcend the evil. It shall be done. So it has been since the beginning.
SPOCK: He doesn't hear you, Captain.

thereturnofarchons_595.jpg


And of course, the holographic recreation room, a precursor to TNG's "upgraded" holodeck, was ultimately shown in "The Practical Joker" (TAS):

thepracticaljoker_073.jpg

thepracticaljoker_075.jpg

thepracticaljoker_078.jpg

thepracticaljoker_082.jpg

thepracticaljoker_141.jpg

thepracticaljoker_142.jpg

thepracticaljoker_144.jpg


Oh, and as to this indignant obsession @BillJ seems to have with (dis)respect to the notion that they might have had the unmitigated gall to create and introduce new designs with the specific intent of licensing and marketing them for merchandising purposes, that's exactly how we got such "iconic" elements as the tricorder, Spock's IDIC medallion, and the Klingon battlecruiser on TOS in the first place! So spare me the moral outrage, please.:rolleyes:

The arguments that TOS designs won't work on the big screen are hogwash.
Then why did they change them for TMP?
Because TMP was the end result of a process that began with Phase II....and there was never a firm plan from the beginning as to what they really wanted to do. That's why some of the artwork shows the Enterprise in spacedock looking virtually unchanged from TOS. There was a lot of indecision:

Art1.jpg
As I've gathered from Memory Alpha's article on the subject (which I see that, in the time since I began composing this post, @TrickyDickie has also linked to) the plan at the beginning was simply to re-use the actual original model from TOS—I assume with a new paint job, just as they were initially going to do with the Klingon battle cruiser model—but the Smithsonian could not be persuaded to give it back for this purpose. So then another model needed to be built, which was to have incorporated an updated configuration similar to the ultimately filmed version overall, yet retaining a smooth TOS-like finish, as insisted upon by Jefferies. But when the project went from being intended for television screens to movie screens, this was deemed unworkable by incoming art director Richard Taylor:

When we first came on the project we had to look at everything that existed and Roddenberry said, “Just use the sets that we’re building and the models we are building”. So, I gave the models [an] honest look but had to tell them in the end that “If you use these models and sets, you’re going to be laughed out of the theatre”. The models would have been embarrassing at best. They were really old school in their detail and were not built to armature and light the way we needed for motion control. They looked like the old television show. Again, Don Loos built the Enterprise and Magicam built the dry-dock and a few other things but they were building for a television movie. The resolution of television is forgiving; the big screen is not. I sat down with Roddenberry and Katzenberg and said we are going to have to redesign the Enterprise because it needs to be armatured from six sides and it needs to have lighting systems in it. I told them “You saw Star Wars. You saw the quality of those models and for us to shoot these models of yours with motion control; to put that motion blur in there with multiple passes… it has to have lights that we can control for individual passes”. If the camera is going to get close to the model–say, up close to the windows, the model has got to be big enough for us to give it detail. Trying to film a model that is too small is deadly. The focus, lighting, depth of field, surface textures and much more come into play...

...I told them we were going to have to redesign them and the sets. Well, Joe Jennings the Art Director at the time and the team who had worked on the sets was not happy about that. There was resentment there. It was touch[y] to tell them that the sets had to match the new models and therefore the sets needed to be redesigned as well. The sets needed to have a much more hi-tech look and they needed to have a lighting concept built into them...

I think this is the first time that Trek has done such a large retcon. Other than the Borg and the romulans in Enterprise, I don’t think there have been any retcons that were as important as redesigning such an iconic ship. Unless it’s another refit - then the whole thing goes away...Unless it’s another refit - then the whole thing goes away...
I'm confused as to why we've slid back to "unless" here, after only a few days. Once again, we can already interpret it as a refit, if we have any such inclination, without anything more being required. We've known since TMP that such refits happen, and have moreover had this reaffirmed within DSC itself. They could acknowledge it further and/or more specifically with respect to the Enterprise, but there really isn't any need at this point. And with that being so, why should they go any farther out of their way in trying vainly to convince those who will surely never accept this as a plausible answer anyway to change their minds?

Unless they intend to make it a full-on focus of the story, as in TMP—where the dramatic purpose of the refit isn't merely to "explain" the visual change, but rather more fundamentally to put Kirk at a disadvantage in having to get to know his estranged old flame all over again, thus further fueling the conflict between him and Decker, and also raising the added obstacle of the ship "not being ready" and having to scramble to meet the threat, which ultimately dovetails with Spock's entrance—then dwelling on such matters any further would only be a derailment, and one likely to little constructive end, because I guarantee you there will still be those who insist it's not explanation enough (just as there still are regarding the TMP refit, believe it or not) and continue to argue about it. (Of course, as on other fronts, they no doubt want us all to keep arguing about it, because it keeps even the haters endlessly talking about the show...but that will surely happen in any case without further prompting.)

-MMoM:D
 
Last edited:
I just read this, and I think it's the most comprehensive and in-depth article that I have read on the whole situation:

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Constitution_class_model_(refit)
Thanks! I’ll check that out :)

They were really old school in their detail and were not built to armature and light the way we needed for motion control. They looked like the old television show.
If I was being really awkward I’d say that the discussion quoted here has more to do with the production values of Star Trek rather than the actual design of the Enterprise - but that’s a can of worms :lol:

Obviously the original sets and models wouldn’t have worked on film since they were built for TV - and televisions were a lot smaller and had way worse quality and resolution than they do today.

why should they go any farther out of their way in trying vainly to convince those who will surely never accept this as a plausible answer anyway to change their minds?

Unless they intend to make it a full-on focus of the story, as in TMP
You’re right - this is the part of the argument I was missing. Even if they did acknowledge the enterprise as a refit in dialogue, we’d then shift our discussion to one regarding how plausible that is (which has already been discussed here at length!).

Because I find it plausible (based on earlier Trek) that the Enterprise has been refit for DSC, then I would be happy with a line of dialogue (or a whole scene - im that much of a nerd) explaining this. But there would be many others who think that the discoprise being refit is ridiculous (with good reasons in many cases) so the debate would rage on.

FWIW I like your explanation - they’ve acknowledged that ships have refits in DSC. We know ships have refits in Star Trek overall. Therefore I choose to interpret the discoprise as a refit.

Unless... (just kidding!) :guffaw:

Sidebar: has there been a retcon this big in Star Trek before?
 
Just as a random aside, Richard Taylor, one of the art directors on TMP says the following about the TMP refit nacelles:

Finally, I gave them a deco feel and made them much more rectilinear than the cylindrical designs of the television model.

Does the fact that the nacelles were deliberately give an Art Deco feel date them to that era? Or at least suggest that era now?

Or is it trying to future proof the design by introducing elements that were already old at the time?

And what does that say about the discoprise round nacelles?

(This is from the memory alpha article @TrickyDickie linked above btw - feel free to factcheck my post in this age of double speak fake news)
 
They do have an Art Deco feel, looked at in isolation, but it's very subtle, and the effect is almost non-existent in context. I've never looked at the refit and thought the ship was aiming for Deco or any sort of retro effect. The Discoprise, on the other hand, looks like a mishmash of recognizable designs Frankensteined together.
 
And yet, an inescapable element of that objective reality is the fact that it can only be perceived by us through our senses, which are not always capable of determining its nature accurately. (Even where we have more sensitive instruments with which to better measure those aspects of it that are directly observable, and/or additional mathematical formulae to describe those that aren't, these themselves must be designed, constructed, and operated by us, and the results obtained interpreted through the use of those same senses.)

A mere few morsels of food for thought:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dress#Scientific_explanations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave


Whatever "reality" it may have is anything but "objective"; even the author or artist themself can only tell you what their creation means to them, or to the particular character(s) in question. What it means to you depends on you, in the end.


Quite...and some of them they even did think of, but just weren't able to effectively show at the time! Case in point: holograms on Kirk's Enterprise, both of the immersive environment and interpersonal communications varieties! Here once again, The Making Of Star Trek should be required reading for all those laboring under the misapprehension that such aspects of DSC somehow violate "Gene's Vision"!

Pg. 188:

MEN AND WOMEN ON A STARSHIP, SO LONG OUT OF CONTACT WITH EARTH AND SO LONG AWAY FROM OTHER PLANETS, TOO, WILL REQUIRE A FEELING OF FRESH AIR AND SKY AND WIND AND SCENTS. BECAUSE WE ARE, IN MANY RESPECTS, STILL ANIMALS, OUR MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL EQUILIBRIUM WILL REQUIRE THE FAMILIARITY OF THIS. MAN HAS BEEN TOO LONG A PART OF EARTH TO BE TOO LONG SEPARATED. THEREFORE WE INTEND TO BUILD A SIMULATED 'OUTDOOR' RECREATION AREA WHICH GIVES A REALISTIC FEELING OF SKY, BREEZES, PLANTS, FOUNTAINS, AND SO FORTH. ONE OF THE REASONS FOR MAKING A STARSHIP SO LARGE WOULD BE TO HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS...
Pg. 190:

The fourth major facility on the eighth deck level is the entertainment center. Certainly man of the future will require entertainment as much as we enjoy motion pictures and television today. Probably entertainment will be three-dimensional in nature and perhaps will go even further, in that you will sit in the room and the story will take place all around you. In other words, a sophisticated extension of holography.

This technique will also have its effect on the traditional "mail call." Instead of receiving a letter, a man can sit in the room and, via tape, actually "see" the person sending the correspondence. As the tape is projected, the images will form in the air in front of him, so he will be able to see how his child looks, what's happening to the house, and how great his grandmother looked that day. It will be just as if he were standing there with them. Having used the "projecting unit," he can then use the "photographing unit," do a similar thing himself, and send it home...

And note how in "The Return of the Archons" (TOS), Kirk and Spock attempt to converse in real time with Landru's projection even after they realize that's what it is, as if this is a concept they are well familiar with, finding only the lack of identifiable apparatus producing it to be a novelty:

LANDRU: I am Landru.
SPOCK: Projection, Captain. Unreal.
KIRK: But beautiful, Mister Spock, with no apparatus at this end.
LANDRU: You have come as destroyers. You bring an infection.
KIRK: You are holding my ship. I demand that you release it.
LANDRU: You have come to a world without hate, without fear, without conflict. No war, no disease, no crime. None of the ancient evils. Landru seeks tranquillity. Peace for all. The universal good.
KIRK: We mean you no harm. Ours is a mission of peace and good will.
LANDRU: The good must transcend the evil. It shall be done. So it has been since the beginning.
SPOCK: He doesn't hear you, Captain.

thereturnofarchons_595.jpg


And of course, the holographic recreation room, a precursor to TNG's "upgraded" holodeck, was ultimately shown in "The Practical Joker" (TAS):

thepracticaljoker_073.jpg

thepracticaljoker_075.jpg

thepracticaljoker_078.jpg

thepracticaljoker_082.jpg

thepracticaljoker_141.jpg

thepracticaljoker_142.jpg

thepracticaljoker_144.jpg


Oh, and as to this indignant obsession @BillJ seems to have with (dis)respect to the notion that they might have had the unmitigated gall to create and introduce new designs with the specific intent of licensing and marketing them for merchandising purposes, that's exactly how we got such "iconic" elements as the tricorder, Spock's IDIC medallion, and the Klingon battlecruiser on TOS in the first place! So spare me the moral outrage, please.:rolleyes:




As I've gathered from Memory Alpha's article on the subject (which I see that, in the time since I began composing this post, @TrickyDickie has also linked to) the plan at the beginning was simply to re-use the actual original model from TOS—I assume with a new paint job, just as they were initially going to do with the Klingon battle cruiser model—but the Smithsonian could not be persuaded to give it back for this purpose. So then another model needed to be built, which was to have incorporated an updated configuration similar to the ultimately filmed version overall, yet retaining a smooth TOS-like finish, as insisted upon by Jefferies. But when the project went from being intended for television screens to movie screens, this was deemed unworkable by incoming art director Richard Taylor:

When we first came on the project we had to look at everything that existed and Roddenberry said, “Just use the sets that we’re building and the models we are building”. So, I gave the models [an] honest look but had to tell them in the end that “If you use these models and sets, you’re going to be laughed out of the theatre”. The models would have been embarrassing at best. They were really old school in their detail and were not built to armature and light the way we needed for motion control. They looked like the old television show. Again, Don Loos built the Enterprise and Magicam built the dry-dock and a few other things but they were building for a television movie. The resolution of television is forgiving; the big screen is not. I sat down with Roddenberry and Katzenberg and said we are going to have to redesign the Enterprise because it needs to be armatured from six sides and it needs to have lighting systems in it. I told them “You saw Star Wars. You saw the quality of those models and for us to shoot these models of yours with motion control; to put that motion blur in there with multiple passes… it has to have lights that we can control for individual passes”. If the camera is going to get close to the model–say, up close to the windows, the model has got to be big enough for us to give it detail. Trying to film a model that is too small is deadly. The focus, lighting, depth of field, surface textures and much more come into play...

...I told them we were going to have to redesign them and the sets. Well, Joe Jennings the Art Director at the time and the team who had worked on the sets was not happy about that. There was resentment there. It was touch[y] to tell them that the sets had to match the new models and therefore the sets needed to be redesigned as well. The sets needed to have a much more hi-tech look and they needed to have a lighting concept built into them...


I'm confused as to why we've slid back to "unless" here, after only a few days. Once again, we can already interpret it as a refit, if we have any such inclination, without anything more being required. We've known since TMP that such refits happen, and have moreover had this reaffirmed within DSC itself. They could acknowledge it further and/or more specifically with respect to the Enterprise, but there really isn't any need at this point. And with that being so, why should they go any farther out of their way in trying vainly to convince those who will surely never accept this as a plausible answer anyway to change their minds?

Unless they intend to make it a full-on focus of the story, as in TMP—where the dramatic purpose of the refit isn't merely to "explain" the visual change, but rather more fundamentally to put Kirk at a disadvantage in having to get to know his estranged old flame all over again, thus further fueling the conflict between him and Decker, and also raising the added obstacle of the ship "not being ready" and having to scramble to meet the threat, which ultimately dovetails with Spock's entrance—then dwelling on such matters any further would only be a derailment, and one likely to little constructive end, because I guarantee you there will still be those who insist it's not explanation enough (just as there still are regarding the TMP refit, believe it or not) and continue to argue about it. (Of course, as on other fronts, they no doubt want us all to keep arguing about it, because it keeps even the haters endlessly talking about the show...but that will surely happen in any case without further prompting.)

-MMoM:D

I would just say that there is a difference between ‘introduce new stuff with a view to merch’ And ‘introduce a slightly different version so the old merch licenses won’t do, and new toys can be sold’.
 
They do have an Art Deco feel, looked at in isolation, but it's very subtle, and the effect is almost non-existent in context. I've never looked at the refit and thought the ship was aiming for Deco or any sort of retro effect. The Discoprise, on the other hand, looks like a mishmash of recognizable designs Frankensteined together.
Tbh I’d never even considered that the TMP nacelles had an Art Deco look about them either - maybe because they’d become so associated with “movie era” ships in my mind that I’d never thought of them in any other way...!

As for the discoprise I’m inclined to agree. I prefer it to the Kelvin Enterprise - which I’ve never liked and still don’t - but at least the Kelvin ship had its own style and was a true reinvention of the design.

The only way I can rationalise the discoprise is as a refit for the Klingon war with early testbeds for what would become upgrades in the future (the nacelle pylons for instance).

I’m not a big comic book guy so the idea of retcons on this scale are new and scary to me :lol: I understand what they are and why they’re sometimes necessary, but I’m not a big fan of them. Unlike The Doctor, who had to ask if this is “the way time usually passes - really slowly and in the right order” I’m used to things happening slowly and in the right order. The discoprise seems not to be in the right place at the right time by that logic - hence why I’m choosing to interpret it as a refit (which also explains the mishmash of Frankenstein bits - they kept the bits that worked and chucked the rest!)
 
They do have an Art Deco feel, looked at in isolation, but it's very subtle, and the effect is almost non-existent in context. I've never looked at the refit and thought the ship was aiming for Deco or any sort of retro effect. The Discoprise, on the other hand, looks like a mishmash of recognizable designs Frankensteined together.

I’ve always thought the refit looked Deco. More like a cruise liner, ironically, that the galaxy class. The warp nacelles alone look like early Diesel engines (and even some later steam engines) from the twenties and thirties, the overall swan-like appearance and detailing just adds to that.
 
I would just say that there is a difference between ‘introduce new stuff with a view to merch’ And ‘introduce a slightly different version so the old merch licenses won’t do, and new toys can be sold’.
Does the merchandising logic suck if I spent £35 on a hero ship model from a 50 year old tv show then a further £35 on a lighting kit for it? I ain’t doing that for no discoprise... hehe
 
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