USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

[Groppler Zorn]

I'd choose the JJPrise every time over anything on STD - especially the Discoprise.

I think if the shenzhou and disco herself had been designed using the Kelvin style designs of that era the ships would have implied TOS much more successfully than the Eaves fleet does in DSC. I like Eaves’ later federation ship designs - the Enterprise E is gorgeous in my opinion - and some of the Klingon ships he designed for ENT are nice imo too. But I’m not a fan of the DSC fleet atm.

I wonder what the DSC Enterprise would have looked like if they’d used the Kelvin timeline design language - not the Kelvin Enterprise, the other ships - there was a design floating around online a while back of the Kelvin Enterprise made with Kelvin parts (I can’t immediately find it now) but that may have suggested the prime Enterprise more than the DSC ship does.

 

[valkyrie013]

The Kelvin Enterprise has grown on me, I like it ( that and the fact I have the Revill Germany big model kit sitting on my shelf!) But the Beyond's version (The Skinny) I don't like at all.. proportions are all wrong.. -_-

I don't mind a Disco redesign.. just wish they stuck closer to the original .. that shortened neck, and potato pealer pylons are just.. well ugly.. ruins the proportions.. otherwise I think John did a good job on it, but as always.. He has to work in the box he is given..

 

[jaime]

Which ships would you say aren’t smooth?

The TMP refit, reliant, Grissom, and excelsior are smooth and greebleless. There are no random cutouts on the hulls, no excessively stepped saucer sections. They’re pretty smooth relative to the DSC era.

Also I agree that the TOS Connie is damn amazing

Reliant is where the steps start. Excelsior was first with some greebles of a relatively overt nature. Eaves turns those things up to eleven. The sovereign is basically a galaxy class morphed into a refit Connie with its saucer turned. The engines in particular look like galaxy engines turned sideways and then growing through Connie engines and splitting the seams.

 

[BillJ]

But the Beyond's version (The Skinny) I don't like at all.. proportions are all wrong..

Yeah. I really disliked the Beyond version.

I don't mind a Disco redesign.. just wish they stuck closer to the original .. that shortened neck, and potato pealer pylons are just.. well ugly.. ruins the proportions.. otherwise I think John did a good job on it, but as always.. He has to work in the box he is given..

I think my biggest problem with the Discovery version, is that it is no longer as tall as the TOS version. There was something graceful about the proportions, and this version loses it. Of course, everyone's mileage will vary.

 

[TrickyDickie]

https://www.deviantart.com/marksman104/art/Enterprise-A-Kelvin-Timeline-646822181

Hadn't seen that, up to this point.

Nacelles too long, mounted too low, and those pylons look like squashed, twisted sausage.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

Reliant is where the steps start

Do you mean the bit at the back of the saucer where the shuttle bays are? I see what you mean, but I’m talking about stepped sections on the actual curve of the saucer itself like the Enterprise E, or on the europa - with the cutouts - or the Edison - where there’s a flat bit, then a curved bit, then another flat bit, etc. The Yeager looks like it does this as well.

Excelsior was first with some greebles of a relatively overt nature

True, but the reliant and excelsior had relatively smooth curved primary hulls with not much in the way of added modules etc relative to the original constitution class.

The excelsior secondary hull is smooth as well. There are some things attached to the ship here and there (noticeably on the top of the saucer) but that’s not much more than the bits that adorned the top of the tos Connie saucer - when compared to the DSC ships that is.

Eaves turns those things up to eleven.

Agreed. He seems to like that sort of thing -which is fair enough I guess but when he designed such an important 24th century ship, using the same design elements on ships that are a century older has the effect of making the DSC ships seem out of place to me.

 

[jaime]

Do you mean the bit at the back of the saucer where the shuttle bays are? I see what you mean, but I’m talking about stepped sections on the actual curve of the saucer itself like the Enterprise E, or on the europa - with the cutouts - or the Edison - where there’s a flat bit, then a curved bit, then another flat bit, etc. The Yeager looks like it does this as well.


True, but the reliant and excelsior had relatively smooth curved primary hulls with not much in the way of added modules etc relative to the original constitution class.

The excelsior secondary hull is smooth as well. There are some things attached to the ship here and there (noticeably on the top of the saucer) but that’s not much more than the bits that adorned the top of the tos Connie saucer - when compared to the DSC ships that is.


Agreed. He seems to like that sort of thing -which is fair enough I guess but when he designed such an important 24th century ship, using the same design elements on ships that are a century older has the effect of making the DSC ships seem out of place to me.

Oh I don’t disagree. Just you can see where eaves went from..the steps on the reliant turn up on his first big commission, the e, because he was told to go motion picture for film audiences, not the lineage that existed on TV at the time (which was still essentially smooth) so we see the deco stepped hull of the reliant starting to slide down, those same lines in the engines we see in the motion picture...it’s very diesel era styling. The excelsior is smooth, but then you look at its bum on the secondary hull, and there’s the greebles hatching at the back. Voyager is probably the most blatant use of greebles, but, and it’s a big but, that was for scale. It’s the fore sensor pallet alone that is greebles, because it shows scale next to the ent d...which had its own sensor greebles in the rim of the saucer as sensors. Which make it seem so much more huge. Greebles on every surface actually scale a thing too low sometimes. The aztecing formerly in use works much better, and helps break the lines up to provide interest. It’s why I don’t like some of the aztecing I see used on the TOS Connie in fan art these days...a big old shaded ring actually looks terrible.
But this is because we seem to now thing of the ships as jet aircraft (very much eaves thinking) not as sailing ships. Hence the sleek look, but also the lack of height, and the aztecing that use to look like the wood of ships hull’s being replaced with ever more modular greebles or the simplistic shading.
I give the sovereign a pass on that at least, she still looks more ship than jet...on the other hand, jets themselves went that way in the stealth era, apart from engines which are still dirty great cylinders.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

Oh I don’t disagree. Just you can see where eaves went from..the steps on the reliant turn up on his first big commission, the e, because he was told to go motion picture for film audiences, not the lineage that existed on TV at the time (which was still essentially smooth) so we see the deco stepped hull of the reliant starting to slide down, those same lines in the engines we see in the motion picture...it’s very diesel era styling.

Ah ok I see what you mean now now that you mention it you can see the “motion picture” effect in play in the design there. I wonder whether Eaves’s previous work modifying the excelsior for the Enterprise B influenced his work on the E. I’ll have to dig out my copy of “art of the tng films” and have a look!

The excelsior is smooth, but then you look at its bum on the secondary hull, and there’s the greebles hatching at the back.

Yeah that’s a point - what even is that thing? I’ve seen it described as the shuttle repair area or a tractor beam emitter - either way it’s a greeble. Fortunately it’s hidden away mostly inside.

Voyager is probably the most blatant use of greebles, but, and it’s a big but, that was for scale. It’s the fore sensor pallet

I never liked that thing - I like the intrepid class overall, but that diamond sensor pallet thing is as you say just a big greebly thing. They never even used it in the show as I recall.

Tangentially, couldn’t we describe the deflector dish on the prime constitution as a greeble, technically...?

I don’t like some of the aztecing I see used on the TOS Connie in fan art these days...a big old shaded ring actually looks terrible.

Agreed. I didn’t mind it in “Mirror darkly”, as it was relatively subtle. But I’m also not a fan of that ring that seems to have appeared on the saucer. It was on the “trails” Enterprise too - was it something that was always on the ship just too difficult to see originally?

we seem to now thing of the ships as jet aircraft (very much eaves thinking) not as sailing ships. Hence the sleek look, but also the lack of height, and the aztecing that use to look like the wood of ships hull’s being replaced with ever more modular greebles or the simplistic shading.

That would explain all the neckless ships in DSC. It’s almost like the designers are thinking inside a contemporary box rather than trying to think outside of one like Jefferies did.

 

[Tuskin38]

I'm not seeing anything on the Enterprise that I would describe as 'greeble'.

Same with the Intrepid. I don't think you people understand was greeble is, or are exaggerating the term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeble

This is greeble, bunch of parts that make the design look busy.

Or hell, to use a Star Trek example

 

[Groppler Zorn]

I'm not seeing anything on the Enterprise that I would describe as 'greeble'.

Same with the Intrepid. I don't think you people understand was greeble is, or are exaggerating the term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeble

This is greeble, bunch of parts that make the design look busy.

Or hell, to use a Star Trek example

This is very helpful, thank you

 

[jaime]

I'm not seeing anything on the Enterprise that I would describe as 'greeble'.

Same with the Intrepid. I don't think you people understand was greeble is, or are exaggerating the term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeble

This is greeble, bunch of parts that make the design look busy.

Or hell, to use a Star Trek example

Greebles are the result of kit bashing. Until kitbashing became something else. I believe greebles are also now known as nurblies. You can literally identify the...I think it’s a Tamiya tank kit....stuck on the back of the millennium falcon. It really comes out of late seventies model fx, especially Star Wars and Alien.
On the enterprise d, the closest you will get is, as I said, inside the rim on the saucer. The voyager sensor array is definitely an exemplar, but it works because of the contrast. Your examples are just massive greebles storms. Apart from the Death Star walls, which is more of a texture thing rather than random things to make it look functional as well as providing texture and depth. I always assume the Borg cube was just tons of left over sprues stuck on a box. XD
It becomes a design ethic for a number of years, but Trek, even now, is fairly greebles free, preferring aztecing and textures to just gluing a box of kits on the back of a lightbulb. (Which still happens with cgi models, cos it’s still fast...hence the the X-Wing on the event horizon.)

 

[Rahul]

For those who have not yet seen this aft view from Anovos' twitter:

Edit: Full spread of photos:

https://www.anovos.com/collections/...class-studio-scale-starship-filming-miniature

This is not a bad design. Like, not at all.

It's just not as good as the original.
And that's a bit of a problem. It's like remaking a very popular movie in a slightly inferiour way. It would have been better to either just use the original design with better texture and details, or not show the Enterprise at all. Instead of adding just another variant on the ever increasing pile of re-imaginations of Jeffries still unequaled original design.

 

[TrickyDickie]

I believe greebles are also now known as nurblies.

The term is "nurnies" :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeble

Thus my saying that Eaves is living in Nurnia....a play on Narnia.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

but Trek, even now, is fairly greebles free, preferring aztecing and textures to just gluing a box of kits on the back of a lightbulb

Which was the whole point we were discussing / trying to make above - that greebles are relatively few and far between on Trek ships - the intrepid and excelsior excluded. And that’s despite “we people” apparently not knowing what greebles are

This is not a bad design. Like, not at all.

It's just not as good as the original.

Hear hear. I also think it’s an improvement on the rest of the Eaves fleet in DSC as well. I just think the prime ship looks better.

Thus my saying that Eaves is living in Nurnia....a play on Narnia.

Ah! I’m so glad you explained that - I was going to ask but didn’t want to seem uneducated so I just nodded sagely (you couldn’t see it but trust me it happened!)

 

[jaime]

The term is "nurnies" :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeble

Thus my saying that Eaves is living in Nurnia....a play on Narnia.

Yeah I read the wiki page linked after I posted. XD
I treat forums like a chat down the pub, so rarely wander off to look stuff up. The wiki page makes the same comment about the Borg cube I did.

 

[TrickyDickie]

This is not a bad design. Like, not at all.

It's just not as good as the original.
And that's a bit of a problem. It's like remaking a very popular movie in a slightly inferiour way. It would have been better to either just use the original design with better texture and details, or not show the Enterprise at all. Instead of adding just another variant on the ever increasing pile of re-imaginations of Jeffries still unequaled original design.

I will be very interested to see any difference between this Anovos prototype and the for-sale version and what we see onscreen in Discovery. What I'm wondering though....they have that disclaimer about it only being a prototype and that there may be differences as they get into regular production, yet the video interview that is linked to upthread makes it clear that Anovos did 3-D printing straight from the CGI given to them by CBS. Then what will be different from the prototype?

Personally, the shading and whatnot in the aztec on the surface looks odd to me....at least in certain areas.

The area between the impulse engines looks like a port for some kind of a large cable plug.

 

[Tuskin38]

Then what will be different from the prototype?

I'm guessing it won't be as droopy and wavy.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Ah! I’m so glad you explained that - I was going to ask but didn’t want to seem uneducated so I just nodded sagely (you couldn’t see it but trust me it happened!)

Look, it's Number One!!!!!!! :

 

[cooleddie74]

Maybe the Enterprise had lights during the Cage but they were just flip ups.

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[Rahul]

I will be very interested to see any difference between this Anovos prototype and the for-sale version and what we see onscreen in Discovery. What I'm wondering though....they have that disclaimer about it only being a prototype and that there may be differences as they get into regular production, yet the video interview that is linked to upthread makes it clear that Anovos did 3-D printing straight from the CGI given to them by CBS. Then what will be different from the prototype?

If I had to guess, Anovos was given the CGI model of the Enterprise that existed when Season 1 was wrapping up.

Since then, during the production time of Season 2, they most likely have changed and tweaked the CGI model of the Enterprise even more, to better fit with the aesthetics of S2, and probably because that last shot in S1 was fairly lo-res, and the upperside of the ship probably not entirely completed yet.

Meaning Avonos was already creating their "prototype" that looked like the S1-design, but they keep the option to make little tweaks and changes to it, if it becomes visible the CGI model has slightly changed for S2.

IMO it's probably still not entirely decided if or what kind of bridge window the Enterprise has. At the end of S1, it has a big, deep cut-out in the bridge dome, on the model Eaglemoss (and that mobile game) showed, there was none at all, just a small lightning stripe, and in the most recent Comic Con trailer, the ship again has a bridge window, but with a way less deep and noticeable cut-out and a better flow with the rest of the design.