• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Us Damned Americans

i've personally met very few Americans, but more than a few on here and on other sites seem to cop the attitude that USA = better than anything else.

You can't go by most people you see on the internet. Remember? Internet + Anonymity = Asshole? Just like I was pleasantly surprised by Shaytan's comment that French people, in general, don't hate U.S. citizens.

like all this shit about poor dental hyginene in Britain, pisses me off no end and i was amused to read (on cracked, i admit, but they cited a UN report) that Britain has BETTER dental hygiene than the US. it's just that WE don't care if our teeth aren't dazzlingly white. we just care that they're not falling out or full of holes.

Hey, I can't get my teeth radiantly white, and I've given up. They're mostly white, they're strong and healthy, so that works for me.
What it sounds like is a lot of us are falling prey to stereotypes, and it's happening on all sides. For example, calhoun, your information is probably about 20 years out of date. I know of no one who thinks the British, as a people, have bad teeth.
 
My high school French teacher was wrong, then. She told us that there was a strong element of anti-Americanism in France, and so I walked away from those classes with the perplexing idea as to why the French people would hate someone for being a U.S. citizen.

Your teacher was right but you were wrong. There is a resistance against american culture (not everything ;) ) and american politic but that doesn't mean that we hate Americans. We see "you" as loud, silly and irrational, that's all ;)
 
well, it's a repeated joke in several movies - even bloody Austin Powers - and it's annoying.

Those are movies. Plus, you'll note that in Austin Powers, the only one who has bad teeth is Austin.

Your teacher was right but you were wrong. There is a resistance against american culture (not everything ;) ) and american politic but that doesn't mean that we hate Americans. We see "you" as loud, silly and irrational, that's all ;)

As long as I get to visit, I can live with that. :D
 
There are plenty of us who are NOT like that. Plenty. Those of us who have traveled alot outside the US (to places other than US military installations and in manners other than tour buses filled with other Americans) in particular are VERY well aware of the fact that not everyone is just DYING to be like us. Nor is everyone DYING to come here and be one of us.

A majority of Americans doesn't own a passport, and I'm guessing most of those who don't never have, meaning they have never left the country.
I don't know any such statistics about Europe, but I'm sure the numbers are much higher.

5506783655ef8d18994eo.png
 
A majority of Americans doesn't own a passport, and I'm guessing most of those who don't never have, meaning they have never left the country.
I don't know any such statistics about Europe, but I'm sure the numbers are much higher.

5506783655ef8d18994eo.png

I don't own a passport. I will when I finally visit Canada (who knows when).

No problem, you're welcome to visit :)
I promise that we're nicer than what is told ;)

The first thing I want to do is visit an open air market!
 
There are plenty of us who are NOT like that. Plenty. Those of us who have traveled alot outside the US (to places other than US military installations and in manners other than tour buses filled with other Americans) in particular are VERY well aware of the fact that not everyone is just DYING to be like us. Nor is everyone DYING to come here and be one of us.

A majority of Americans doesn't own a passport, and I'm guessing most of those who don't never have, meaning they have never left the country.
I don't know any such statistics about Europe, but I'm sure the numbers are much higher.



5506783655ef8d18994eo.png
The passport thing isn't all that surprising. The US is a big country, theres plenty to do here without leaving. Once you leave, you have to deal with added expenses. On top of that, for a very long time you didn't need a passport to visit countries in the region. Only since September 11th has the passport issue become a big deal.





Of course, aside from the indigenous peoples, everyone in the USA is from immigrant stock, so that's why it has become so important to declare nationality.

Yeah but they still claim proudly that they're german-irish-whatever...sounds illogical to me...

It makes sense.Using myself as an example, my father was a Jamaican immigrant and my mother is of Irish ancestry. I grew up with both cultures having an influence on my development. At the same time, the American culture had an influence as well. Hence, Jamaican-Irish American :p
 
We in the wider world very rarely hear about American citizens going against the grain, and that fuels the stereotype of one monolithic entity.

Well, I can see that you didn't read my posts for...well, the entire Bush Administration. :lol: Jeez...I was full time 'against the grain' for 8 long YEARS. And not being a particular fan of Obama, I'm still kind of going against the grain (although decidedly less so). During the Dubya years, I went against the grain to the point of exhaustion, in fact. At one point, my own President was calling me (and those like me) an un-American terrorist sympathizer right from the podium, simply because I was opposed to going into Afghanistan (let alone Iraq). And I still refused to back down. The Wars, the Patriot Act, Gitmo, Katrina...GAH! There was always something to be pissed off about during those 8 years. :lol:

And in my actual encounters with Americans, this has been my general observation - there is, politically at least, as much disagreement, if not more, than in the UK. But the reason I know that is that I've travelled extensively to the US, have American family and friends, and interact regularly in a political sense with Americans on here. The majority of my peers do not; the impression America gives the world is "America! Fuck Yeah!" The OP asked why 'people bash America' - that, primarily, is why. A stereotype built on grains of truth but expanded to create a caricature of American nationalism.

And I must say, even interacting with Americans, I can't quite shake the 'arrogant' stereotype ;) Constantly being told we're doing things wrong because it's not the American way does grind you down after a while. I have lost track of the number of things about Britain that Americans have described as crazy, dangerous, undemocratic, violating, and downright evil just because we have a different way of doing something to the US.


911 was absolutely the most traumatic thing that has ever happened to us, as a nation, and a LOT of people didn't know what to do with the shock, fear, and anger we all felt.
I think a lot of people outside your borders have trouble with that attitude, too. And not because we don't feel sympathy, or because we play down what happened. It was, arguably, the first major attack on the US mainland since there was a unified US mainland to attack. Most of us here, on the other hand, live in cities dotted with the crude concrete monstrosities that mark buildings destroyed by war. Our parents were born into a struggling country torn apart by the German war machine, and lived through a protracted and intense campaign of terrorism over Northern Ireland.

When you walk around Washington DC, you see lots of military personnel proudly wearing their uniforms. I ate at a diner once in god-knows-where, Nevada, next to a USAF Captain in full regalia. That is unknown in the UK, because in the 80s and 90s it was considered too dangerous to do so with the IRA imagined to be hiding behind every wall looking for targets. War, terrorism, and the loss of civilian life on home soil has been part of Europe's history for so long we were almost desensitised to it. America, on the other hand, was not used to being stuck at home, so your reaction was quite different to ours. We saw a tragedy, an enormous loss of life, and felt great sadness and a desire to help our allies in their time of need. You saw something altogether more violating, more personal; a whole new and scary world in which your homeland was no longer safe.

This discrepancy in attitude is partly why the American response to 9/11 was so hard for many Europeans to swallow. In fact, when Bush was talking about his War Against Terrorism in early 2002, a lot of Britons couldn't help wondering where that attitude had been when the IRA were blowing up shopping centres. We couldn't shake the impression that we were only going to 'war' against terrorism because now it was for a cause the Americans didn't secretly support.

Now, at least we've gotten back to a national debate. It is true (and again, unfortunate) that our nation's biggest whack-jobs are the ones running it...but just the fact that we are truly debating at all is better than where we were 7-8 years ago, when near lock-step agreement with the Administration was required, simply to avoid being labeled a terrorist sympathizer. ;)
And I must say, the impression of the US is better now in the UK than it has been since Clinton. Obama was and is a very popular figure over here. The vitriol against the NHS during your healthcare debate hurt you a little - most Britons couldn't see a 'debate' to be had on that subject - but in general, your stock's up in the world. There is a general feeling that the US is willing to come to the table as an equal, rather than as Team Fuck Yeah.


As in my previous posts, I am merely discussing general attitudes here, not arguing that you or indeed any particular Americans hold them. I think we are discussing stereotypes here, and so I am deliberately talking in generalities.
 
And I must say, even interacting with Americans, I can't quite shake the 'arrogant' stereotype Constantly being told we're doing things wrong because it's not the American way does grind you down after a while.
Interestingly enough, many Americans feel the same way in regards to not doing things the European way ;)
 
And I must say, even interacting with Americans, I can't quite shake the 'arrogant' stereotype Constantly being told we're doing things wrong because it's not the American way does grind you down after a while.
Interestingly enough, many Americans feel the same way in regards to not doing things the European way ;)

I'm sure that's true. It is natural to prefer the system you are familiar with, and quite likely we all over sell it to others. There is one example in my post above - healthcare. Britons don't see an argument there with regard to 'should you have public healthcare' - of course you should! :lol: We instead debate the best way of providing it and managing it. So it is very hard for us to comprehend in a balanced manner the arguments made in the US for and against having it at all.
 
Our uphill battle is a little more steep at the moment. For you, healthcare is an essential right (I agree), but here in the U.S., there are way too many corporate interests that have successfully lobbied Congress to say "I wonder if that's true?", which is like saying, "Well, we don't know if pouring cubic miles of toxic smoke into the air causes any harm to human settlements, now do we?" You can buy a lot of things here, including ethics.
 
well, it's a repeated joke in several movies - even bloody Austin Powers - and it's annoying.

It's not just annoying, it's insulting and demeaning. Like those people at the university trying to teach us how to properly disinfect our hands. Just because not everyone has a germ phobia, it doesn't mean people aren't clean.

You get demeaning comments about other countries everywhere, and in the most popular shows, like Friends, generalising the entire German population. Or reducing Brazilians to football players and dancing, half-naked women at Carnaval...and everyone speaks Spanish there, apparently :vulcan:. I'm not even going to go there for fear of blowing an artery.
 
The passport thing isn't all that surprising. The US is a big country, theres plenty to do here without leaving. Once you leave, you have to deal with added expenses. On top of that, for a very long time you didn't need a passport to visit countries in the region. Only since September 11th has the passport issue become a big deal.

Yes, but despite it's size, the USA is much more culturally homogeneous than Europe. Sure Alabama is different from Oregon, but not as much as Croatia is different from Denmark, and I think it's difficult to really broaden your horizon without experiencing something different from your home first-hand.
 
The passport thing isn't all that surprising. The US is a big country, theres plenty to do here without leaving. Once you leave, you have to deal with added expenses. On top of that, for a very long time you didn't need a passport to visit countries in the region. Only since September 11th has the passport issue become a big deal.

Yes, but despite it's size, the USA is much more culturally homogeneous than Europe. Sure Alabama is different from Oregon, but not as much as Croatia is different from Denmark, and I think it's difficult to really broaden your horizon without experiencing something different from your home first-hand.
I'm not saying that's the case. But when your fighting to keep your house expanding your horizons us a minor concern.
 
There is the fact that Americans often have absolutely no idea of how other cultures function, and many don't even try. In the media, other countries get ridiculed to no end, but when someone makes fun of the USA, it's the fucking end of the world (Another thing that got me in trouble was my constant swearing).


Yeah, exactly. Well said. I get highly irritated when jokes about Canada are made, because most of the time they're based off ideas that are so far off, like comedians on a certain channel proclaiming something as if it were fact, as if he knew what he was talking about, ie jokes that come off sounding arrogant due to not knowing the subject material they're trying to be funny at, and at the same time end up insulting the country which became a big enough issue the comedian had to apologize. These kind of jokes are being said all the time and they're not funny, not only because the person making the joke doesn't know wtf they're talking about, but also because it has the tone of being belittling. Yet when we turn around and try to defend ourselves... whoa, watch out. And people wonder why Canada tends to feel angry at the US at times. It's also why I dislike jokes like "America's Hat", as again, it feels like we're belittled by it.

I hear you there. When I was in Michigan, a few of us "foreigners" (Europeans all got lumped together, because nobody seemed to get that it's a continent, not a country) went out with some natives. This girl from Edmonton told the wide-eyed young man that her igloo was being made ready for the winter, and he was just nodding all the time.

Suddenly, she burst out laughing and said, "you're not actually buying this, are you?". He was. :cardie:

That is only one example about one guy, not a generalisation, but during my year in America, I heard so many Canada-related jokes, it was unbelievable. One bloke I went on a date with actually tried to convince me that Earth did not need Canada.

"Who needs Canada, right?" is the most popular in-joke amongst my family members, now.

There are those who defy the cliche: my favourite Americans Billie Joe Armstrong and Stephen King among them. :)

I suppose most people here aren't like that, either.


Yeah, exactly. Ignorance and arrogance do not a good joke make ;) Jokes like those are just simply aren't funny, and being that they're said so often, they're irritating. They're also based on stereotypes, and it's hard to find a joke about Canada without any. We can good-naturedly joke about ourselves, but you know, we do know what we're talking about when we do. All this is along the same lines of Newfie jokes. The term "newfie" is considered a derogatory term by Newfoundlanders. They never call themselves that; only outsiders do, and again, they're the belittling style of jokes.
 
well, it's a repeated joke in several movies - even bloody Austin Powers - and it's annoying.

It's not just annoying, it's insulting and demeaning. Like those people at the university trying to teach us how to properly disinfect our hands. Just because not everyone has a germ phobia, it doesn't mean people aren't clean.

You get demeaning comments about other countries everywhere, and in the most popular shows, like Friends, generalising the entire German population. Or reducing Brazilians to football players and dancing, half-naked women at Carnaval...and everyone speaks Spanish there, apparently :vulcan:. I'm not even going to go there for fear of blowing an artery.

Did you know that the bad teeth joke is popular here? I'm not talking about the stereotype of British people having bad teeth, I'm talking of the stereotype that people from Kentucky having bad teeth.

* You know why the toothbrush was invented in Kentucky? Because if it would have been invented anywhere else it would have been called a 'teethbrush'.

* What do you get when you get a group of 32 Kentuckians together? A full set of teeth.

I live in Ohio, near the Kentucky border, and I have a full set of healthy, white(ish) teeth. I've never had a cavity. I've lived in Kentucky as part of my childhood, and I never worried about losing teeth.

So what does that say about the jokes? That they're jokes and nothing more, made by people who have probably never lived there. It doesn't bother me. Everyone is the butt of a joke at one point or another. Laugh it off and show your pearly whites when you do.
 
So what does that say about the jokes? That they're jokes and nothing more, made by people who have probably never lived there. It doesn't bother me. Everyone is the butt of a joke at one point or another. Laugh it off and show your pearly whites when you do.

I think it has been established on this board many times over that sticks and stones may break my bones but words can cause world war, suicide, unbelievable personal hurt and lifelong grudges.
 
So what does that say about the jokes? That they're jokes and nothing more, made by people who have probably never lived there. It doesn't bother me. Everyone is the butt of a joke at one point or another. Laugh it off and show your pearly whites when you do.

I think it has been established on this board many times over that sticks and stones may break my bones but words can cause world war, suicide, unbelievable personal hurt and lifelong grudges.

Sure they can. The idea is to rise above it, or at the very least, try to correct it. If someone cracks a stereotype joke that you know isn't true, tell them it's silly. If they believe the stereotype, correct them. If they ignore factually based correction, ignore them, they've no intention to learn.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top