Us against the world.Being a DS9 fan

[SpocksOddSocks]

To me the two DS9 characters who fit into that category were Jadzia and Sisko. Early Bashir as well, when his whole character consisted just of "wanting to bone Jadzia"

Well, I would say Bashir was rather dull, but I thought "old man" Jadzia was definitely charming and interesting. Sisko was just the straight up intense boss. Here never seemed an amazingly interesting character, but he never bored or annoyed me either. (I think there was only Bashir who did that, but he did act as a great character for others to play off of).

 

[Orphalesion]

To me the two DS9 characters who fit into that category were Jadzia and Sisko. Early Bashir as well, when his whole character consisted just of "wanting to bone Jadzia"

Well, I would say Badhir was rather dull, but I thought "old man" Jadzia was definitely charming and interesting. Sisko was just the straight up intense boss. Here never seemed an amazingly interesting character, but he never bored or annoyed me either. (I think there was only Bashir who did that, but he did act as a great character for others to play off of).

I have voiced my thoughts on Jadzia many, many ties on this forum to me it boils down: inconsistently written, very little personality, rather irritating in the little personality they gave her. Also wooden acting.
With Sisko....he's not completely uninteresting but there are multiple aspects about him that, combined, make hi so irritating to me that he falls in the "just plain unlikable" category;

-His association with 20th century Earth culture and especially baseball. Oh god...that fucking baseball
-That weird "military robot" way he speaks when irritated with the odd inflection and the Shatner-esque pauses in the middle of sentences "it is EASY to be a SAINT (pause, full stop, you think the sentence is over) in PARADISE!"
-That creepy way he talks when trying to charm someone or talking about something he's passionate about, It sometimes looks like he's having an organism on screen and touches people way too much. (When he talks to Verad and when he describes Nidell to Odo "Her clothing *orgasm face* was RED!")
-The obsession he has with the Starfleet Uniform. "You have betrayed your UNIFORM!" I fail to grasp how anybody can betray an inanimate piece of cloth.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

-The obsession he has with the Starfleet Uniform. "You have betrayed your UNIFORM!" I fail to grasp how anybody can betray an inanimate piece of cloth.

Fetishes over uniforms are milennia old. You may not like it, but it is natural depiction of government and public organizations, and it is certainly no reason to dislike one character.

 

[Autistoid]

I guess part of it was that it was ahead of its time.


Multi racial casts, strong female actors. In fact the only white male on the show playing a white male doesnt even get an officers rank. That alone was beyond the norm in its time.

The fact that bajoran represented religious minorities anywhere between Israel and calcutta. This one I think is truly ahead of its time as it had a very multicultural outlook something that is hard to compare to.

Religion is a fact of life, people may believe they live in a post religious era, and its happened many time in history it never lasts.

Multiple characters in an era before that was the norm. Characters arks etc.

If by against the world I dont mean in a conflicting way I mean in context of recognition.

Of course the show had a drastic number of flaws. Specifically the intense amount of filler. Id argue there is a strong need for a selected episodes listing on DVDs.

Ive trimmed the series down to about 6 seasons with 12 solids episodes that fit into actual character development and arks.

season 1&2 add up to about 12 episodes that have an actual contribution to the show.

Id almost promise people if you can appreciate how the show was truly sci fi in the social sense, a selected episode list will be a rather convincing that it is one of the best sci fis ever made.

 

[Nightdiamond]

The various, clashing personalities on DS9 was was a nice change.

In TNG, everyone was too much alike. They always had the perfect attitude, ethics philosophy all in good balance.

The atmosphere could be so sterile at times.

DS9 started acknowledging things TNG never would or could, like the saint thing in paradise.

If it's not the characters, then it's the storylines that were interesting.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Brooks is guilty of overacting occasionally but Sisko was a strong character in general. I agree about early Bashir and Dax but they certainly weren't the focus enough to ruin the show with great characters like Kira, Odo and Quark who got a lot more screen time.

I don't see a problem with obsessing over the uniform as it is symbolic of the Starfleet organization as a whole. People obsess over pieces of fabric all the time, whether it's a uniform or a flag.

 

[Dugada]

My lack of appreciation for DS9 in large part comes from I simply don't like most of the main characters. It not about the actors themselves, with few exceptions I wouldn't want to spent time with the characters.

Which of them am I supposed to admire or like?

You don't have to like the main characters, there are so many other awesome recurring characters in DS9.

But, I have to admit, I never liked Kira. She's always so grumpy and annoying, always trying to prove how tough she is. But despite of her, DS9 is my favorite series, that's how good it is.

 

[Kilana2]

My lack of appreciation for DS9 in large part comes from I simply don't like most of the main characters. It not about the actors themselves, with few exceptions I wouldn't want to spent time with the characters.

Which of them am I supposed to admire or like?

You don't have to like the main characters, there are so many other awesome recurring characters in DS9.

But, I have to admit, I never liked Kira. She's always so grumpy and annoying, always trying to prove how tough she is. But despite of her, DS9 is my favorite series, that's how good it is.

That was my first impression of Kira, too. And Bashir was too arrogant. But that changed over time....

 

[Greg Cox]

In fact I discovered even the earlier episodes were either intense or intriguing, like Duet or In the Hands of the Prophets.

"Duet" was the first truly great DS9 episode and the one that first demonstrated just what the show was truly capable of.

 

[dub]

"Duet" was the first truly great DS9 episode and the one that first demonstrated just what the show was truly capable of.

Can't say enough great things about "Duet." But for me, the first "truly great" episode was a few before that, "Progress." This was a test of loyalty of Kira and for Kira. I loved how that curmudgeon became family for Kira, both in a very father/grandfatherly way and also in a brother/sister Bajoran way, and you could see the conflict all over her face throughout the episode. Brilliant. And finally, the unresolved tone at the end. Refusing to tie everything together with a pretty bow. Just leaving it at - this is the sad reality for this guy, folks. His way of life up in flames. Fade to black. I loved that. DS9 had a sense of harsh realness to it from that point forward. The highs were really high, and the lows were as low as you can get. Beautiful television.

But, of course, some would say the first truly great episode was..."Emissary."

 

[Nightdiamond]

"Duet" was the first truly great DS9 episode and the one that first demonstrated just what the show was truly capable of.

That was an intense episode to be shown so early in the series. And the thing is, this is a first season episode --from 1993.

TNG by comparison is airing shows like Timescape--a episode about time freezing. That was the format for TNG, but honestly, by comparison it was bland.

DS9 was going in its own direction early on the show.

The closest match in comparison that I can get from TNG, is Chain of Command II and even then everything is wrapped up and solved by the end of the episode.



RE: DS9 not having likeable characters. I think the real intention was to have real, interesting characters with actual flaws.

Sisko is a family man. He got bitter about losing his wife because Picard was used by the Borg to destroy his ship. He got over it.

Garak is a shade of grey, period.

Kai Winn is a self promoting religious fanatic, but then she tells a story about being beaten by the Cardassians because she wouldn't renounce her faith.

Kira is like Sarah Conner except her faith keeps her sane and balanced. Quark says things we've always thought.

The characters seemed interesting to me, it's the occasional bad episode that I don't like .

 

[Zonker]

"Duet" was the first truly great DS9 episode and the one that first demonstrated just what the show was truly capable of.

Can't say enough great things about "Duet." But for me, the first "truly great" episode was a few before that, "Progress." This was a test of loyalty of Kira and for Kira. I loved how that curmudgeon became family for Kira, both in a very father/grandfatherly way and also in a brother/sister Bajoran way, and you could see the conflict all over her face throughout the episode. Brilliant. And finally, the unresolved tone at the end. Refusing to tie everything together with a pretty bow. Just leaving it at - this is the sad reality for this guy, folks. His way of life up in flames. Fade to black. I loved that. DS9 had a sense of harsh realness to it from that point forward. The highs were really high, and the lows were as low as you can get. Beautiful television.

But, of course, some would say the first truly great episode was..."Emissary."

I have sort of a weird relationship with that episode. When I first watched it I felt like it was a good episode but not a great one. I still don't think it was anywhere near the greatness that Duet was. It was much too slow paced. Some would probably consider it boring. I wasn't blown away or anything and yet I distinctly remember thinking "this is going to be my new favorite show". I'm sure it was because it was so devoted to developing Kira's character. While plenty of the other shows focused on single characters they didn't seem to grow the way Kira did in this one. I can't say I I'm in love with the episode but at the same time it cemented my love for the show.

 

[Greg Cox]

"Duet" was the first truly great DS9 episode and the one that first demonstrated just what the show was truly capable of.

Can't say enough great things about "Duet." But for me, the first "truly great" episode was a few before that, "Progress." This was a test of loyalty of Kira and for Kira. I loved how that curmudgeon became family for Kira, both in a very father/grandfatherly way and also in a brother/sister Bajoran way, and you could see the conflict all over her face throughout the episode. Brilliant. And finally, the unresolved tone at the end. Refusing to tie everything together with a pretty bow. Just leaving it at - this is the sad reality for this guy, folks. His way of life up in flames. Fade to black. I loved that. DS9 had a sense of harsh realness to it from that point forward. The highs were really high, and the lows were as low as you can get. Beautiful television.

But, of course, some would say the first truly great episode was..."Emissary."

You know, I had forgotten about "Progress." You're right, that was a good episode that really put Kira through a wringer, emotionally. Good dramatic stuff.

 

[dub]

"Duet" was the first truly great DS9 episode and the one that first demonstrated just what the show was truly capable of.

Can't say enough great things about "Duet." But for me, the first "truly great" episode was a few before that, "Progress." This was a test of loyalty of Kira and for Kira. I loved how that curmudgeon became family for Kira, both in a very father/grandfatherly way and also in a brother/sister Bajoran way, and you could see the conflict all over her face throughout the episode. Brilliant. And finally, the unresolved tone at the end. Refusing to tie everything together with a pretty bow. Just leaving it at - this is the sad reality for this guy, folks. His way of life up in flames. Fade to black. I loved that. DS9 had a sense of harsh realness to it from that point forward. The highs were really high, and the lows were as low as you can get. Beautiful television.

But, of course, some would say the first truly great episode was..."Emissary."

I have sort of a weird relationship with that episode. When I first watched it I felt like it was a good episode but not a great one. I still don't think it was anywhere near the greatness that Duet was. It was much too slow paced. Some would probably consider it boring. I wasn't blown away or anything and yet I distinctly remember thinking "this is going to be my new favorite show". I'm sure it was because it was so devoted to developing Kira's character. While plenty of the other shows focused on single characters they didn't seem to grow the way Kira did in this one. I can't say I I'm in love with the episode but at the same time it cemented my love for the show.

I relate to all of that, and also agree it's nowhere near as awesome as "Duet." Didn't mean to imply that.

 

[Jonesy]

I've seen DS9 now about 4 times through total, and I have come to realize that I like it just as much as I like TNG. But after talking about it with my sig. other, I realize that I like it for entirely different reasons than TNG.

I think it strikes different chords with the writing and general overview of what the series is trying to say. I don't believe for a moment that it's actually the best Trek series. I think it has a lot of strengths, but some weaknesses.

However, I do feel that it was sadly overlooked all those years ago, and I still hold to the belief that if it was released today it would be a hit and much talked about.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Without saying that Emissary is better than Duet, I believe that there are many things that recommend the episode and make it among DS9's best. It was the third time that some part of the franchise was introduced with this kind of story: an unknown threat be disarmed through the spirit of the impartial explorer. Both ST:TMP and Encounter and Farpoint saw threats disarmed by trying to communicate the notion that we humans try to understand the universe as a means of understanding ourselves. Emissary turned the notion back on itself by forcing the protagonist to explore himself, even the most painful parts of his psyche.

Second, it takes the main character's backstory seriously. Most Trek pilots wave their hands over the character descriptions in order to move the plot forward. He's a boomer, he's a criminial, whatever. In Emissary, significant parts of the main character's backstory are not only explored in the prologue, but its meaning is explored throughout the episode. This might be par for the course now, but it was unusual for the mid-1990s.

Finally, I would opine that it is the most rewatchable of the Berman era pilots. It provides more story. It establishes the characters better. We already see Kira, for instance, acting independently.

 

[Shada Dukal]

Being a DS9 fan is difficult where I live, Star Trek series have never been aired officially apart from several seasons from TNG in the mid-90’s that no one understood back then because we are very different in mentality from the traditional ST audiences. There are no more than 10 people (showbiz producers, directors and translators) who are aware of DS9 and ST in general. I have never expected to like it because whenever I tried to watch TNG I realized that it did not resonate with me and I found the characters and their dramas a storm in a teacup. What I like about DS9 is that it convinced me that it was not the typical happy-go-lucky product and managed to introduce me to the trek culture that I am currently exploring, it is a great social experiment and an adventure.

DS9 is the starkest and most sincere Trek series and this accounts for its difficult reception. I really like that it did away with the constraints on personal conflicts, religion, and cornucopian oversimplification. It took the pains to present the otherness as a point of view and departed from the human-centered approach. For the first time the aliens were allowed to express their views on humans and humans had to admit that no one was perfect. The glory days of the sci-fi genre are over but still I guess this show manages to attract new audiences.

I like the continuity, the gradual development of story arcs and the characters, it allowed for more depth and revealed the cultural and social aspects of their motivation. The show had amazing secondary cast and recurring characters and boldly went where no trek dared to go – into the dark side of human nature that is there no matter how much trek world tried to shun it. I have never expected that Star Trek will have the guts to present a war, this is not Star Wars or Battlestar Galactica after all, dirty scheming, underhanded machinations, the asymmetrical nature of power relations, the clash between personal choices and necessity.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

"Duet" was the first truly great DS9 episode and the one that first demonstrated just what the show was truly capable of.

That was an intense episode to be shown so early in the series. And the thing is, this is a first season episode --from 1993.

TNG by comparison is airing shows like Timescape--a episode about time freezing. That was the format for TNG, but honestly, by comparison it was bland.

Tapestry was also around that time and IMO it's the best Trek episode.

But yes, what's great about DS9 was that it took the ideals of TNG and put them out of their element. It took people who found it easy to be heroic living in a paradise and put them among people who were slaves in their own lifetime and challenged them to still be heroic.

 

[intrinsical]

I find that age matters a lot. Most of the people I know who profess to dislike DS9 watched it as an under-16 teenager. In contrast, most of the people who watched DS9 as an adult either think its an okay show or loved it a lot. Its not surprising as DS9 delves into a lot of adult topics like terrorism, politics and religion which children wouldn't be interested in.

 

[IronMaiden]

I think when I looked at the best tv show list on top ten list it was the last star trek show on the list and all the others was in front.

But i like ds9 the best as i watch it more.