UNTO THE QUADRANT SHALL COME A GREAT DISASTER: 2387

True, but this due to inaction by the franchise rather than shipping him off to be free to use for the novels.

Since, at the moment, the novels can't play in the AU, that means in order for Spock to return to the Prime universe he would have to sent there in a new movie. I just can't see them spending screen time on doing that, especially since it was such a big deal bringing him over in the first place.

It's not impossible. However, it is EXTREMELY unlikely, and I think it's wishful thinking that he will return to the Prime Universe.

 

Sooner or later Leonard will pass away. Hopefully later. At that point (if not before) they will kill off Spock in the JJverse. I suppose an inventive author could spin that off into a return to the prime universe, but it would tricky without referencing the JJverse.

I think more likely that the JJverse will wind down and peter out in the next ten years and that will free up ALL the characters and versions thereof for use in Treklit.

If Kirk or Spock was thrust into the 24th Century novels, how much difference would there be between Shatner/Pine or Nimoy/Quinto ? Especially as in Spocks case NuSpock and Prime Spock could well have melded, rendering any difference negligible. Could NuSpock absorb Prime Spock's Katra ?

 

Yes.

Personally, since the Chris Pine Kirk films are in a distinct/separate parrallel universe from the Bill Shatner Kirk world, I hope that the novels don't even address what happens in 2387 in Pine's universe.

Now, if they want to do novels set in the Abrams universe, then that's another story. But leave Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley, Stewart, Brooks, et al, out of it.

 

But the idea is that the supernova in 2387 happened in the original timeline, the one Nimoy's Spock came from, and that it caused Nero to go back in time and create the alternate timeline. The whole reason for doing the time travel story in the first place was to establish that connection between the old and new timelines. If they'd been meant to be completely separate, they just would've introduced the new versions of the characters without bothering to do a time travel story or cast Nimoy in the film.

 

And do these front line soldiers go around nuking the equivalent of entire countries into dusk (aka when they blew up a freaking planet) and making modern art out the the bodies of their fallen enemies and then using bio-weapons on unsuspecting people who wander into their combat zone because they think everyone in the area is an enemy?

 

I'm well aware of the intent of the filmmakers, but I maintain that the current films was a part of a separate universe to begin with. With 285,000 of them, there's no reason that can't be the case.

And Nimoy's participation doesn't matter either way. After all, he (along with the rest of the cast) played alternate versions of the characters in "Mirror, Mirror". The same goes for the TNG cast in "Parrallels". Hell, Bob Orci even cited "Parallels" as an explanation (not to mention the writers' inspiration for) the 2009 film when that movie first came out.

No. Let the Abrams universe be the Abrams universe, and the Prime Universe be the Prime universe.

 

Except for that fact that the intent of the filmmakers is more important to what does and doesn't happen in the Star Trek universe then what some fans on the internet think.

And when said fans have any control what so ever over the trek universe they'll give a crap about what they think, but until that day (if it ever comes) they can pretty much do what ever they feel like.

 

Sure, that's what you personally wish. Just don't expect the actual filmmakers, novelists, comic authors, or anyone else to do it that way just because you wish they would.

 

Exactly, stop wishing and just keep eating what they serve you.

 

Many Trek castmembers have died, yet had their characters live on in the novels. Should anything happen to Nimoy (and I hope not!!) I'd like to see the elder Spock's adventures continue in novels and comics.

 

This topic brings up a temporal mechanics question that I wonder if anyone would care to speculate upon.

In 2384, Captain Brown of the U.S.S. DeLorean travels back to the early 21st century, a time before Nero appears in the past and alters the timeline. Up to this point, we have seen ships in the various series end up in the past, and return to their present, which occurs after Nero. Is there a subjective component to all this? Since Nero had not traveled to the past in their subjective future, his alterations haven't yet occured?

And what if the U.S.S. DeLorean travels back in time from the Prime universe in 2390, after Nero's trip. Would the DeLorean return to the future in the JJverse? And if he did, wouldn't it be Captain Brown's first duty to try and correct the alteration?

If they don't want ships jumping timelines, wouldn't Nero's trip end time travel in the prime novelverse?

 

In the universe that Voyager and Enterprise established, there is a time police that prevents any time travel incident, with ships that exist outside linear time and monitor any changes. That means Nero's actions would be prevented and the timeline would be restored. So in the prime universe, nothing ever happened.

Same goes for the Voyager episode Endgame. Never happened, because restored. Sorry Janeway. But temporal prime directive is temporal prime directive, and you have been asked repeatedly to stop fucking with the timeline.

 

DTI: Watching the Clock establishes that the time cops come from the post-"Endgame" timeline. If she doesn't alter history as we saw, the events of Destiny don't come about and the galaxy is eventually assimilated by the Borg.

It also details black holes and alternate universes.

 

Why would it? The Abrams timeline doesn't replace the Prime timeline or supersede it in some kind of hierarchy. It's just a forking of the road, one of millions of coexisting branching histories.

As a rule, if you alter nothing in your past, you return to the timeline branch you started from, regardless of how many independent branchings might have split off between your origin and destination dates. Presumably this is because you're quantum-correlated with that timeline and it's the natural one for you to return to -- or, as per the DS9 Millennium trilogy, because that's the timeline that your "Feynman curve" through spacetime is anchored to. However, if you take action that generates an altered timeline, then naturally you're going to be quantum-correlated with the events you participated in, so from that point on you'll be entangled with the altered timeline, and that's the one you'll find yourself in if you travel forward. It will look to you as if your actions have overwritten your home timeline with a "new" one, but in actuality they coexist side-by-side along with countless others. (Keep in mind that the 285,000 parallel timelines seen in TNG: "Parallels" were only the ones where an Enterprise-D with a Worf aboard passed by that particular quantum fissure at that particular time. Which makes them a rather narrow subset of the total multiverse.)

So your path into the future is determined by which of those many branching timelines you have a direct correlation with, either because you came from it in the first place or because your actions created it. You won't veer off into a timeline created by a different set of time travelers at a point in history you didn't visit, because you have no correlation with that timeline.

No, because even time cops aren't omniscient. As far as anyone in any future extending forward from Primeverse 2387 is aware, Spock and Nero simply fell into a black hole and disappeared, the end. And even if scans of the red-matter black hole did provide enough data to show that they went back in time, that event did not endanger the existence of the Prime timeline, so there is no reason to undo it. It's a simple fact of life that parallel timelines exist by the gazillions. Temporal agents simply don't have the time -- no pun intended -- or the resources to undo the creation of any of the innumerable parallel timelines that coexist harmlessly with their own. Their efforts would be concentrated on undoing alterations that jeopardized their own existence.

 

Christopher, you just contradicted yourself. In one spot you say that time travel causes branches which don't affect the later times. In the next spot you say that time cops only police the stuff that affects their time.

 

^Sometimes a river will fork into two separate rivers, and sometimes the forks will come back together into the same river. That's not a contradiction, it's just the same physics having different effects in different contexts. In Trek, some timelines do overwrite others, and some do not. I explain the reasons for the difference in DTI: Watching the Clock.

 

Oh, I get the reasoning in a meta sort of way. I realize that the way time travel is addressed in Trek is wholly inconsistent. I'm just pointing out how absurd it is to rationalize it.

 

^Except that when I researched temporal physics for my DTI novels, it was surprising how plausible a lot of it turned out to be. It's never absurd to apply one's imagination and knowledge to solving a problem. It's not "rationalizing," it's being creative. I didn't have to make sense of Trek time travel, but it was a creative challenge I wanted to tackle, an opportunity to take disparate, contradictory pieces and build a consistent structure out of them. And it was actually easier than I thought it would be.

 

There is nothing that definitely states if Nero appeared in a parallel universe, or if he overwrote the timeline. All we have is the nuTrek character's subjective perspective.