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Unseen TOS....

I wouldn’t say I’m “experimenting” with SketchUp given the results I can get out of it. But I will check out MoI3D. Of course, it has to work with Mac and be optimized for Apple Silcon or it won’t work for me.

…Okay, it can be used for Mac, but I haven’t found it if it’s optimized for Apple Silicon yet.

Looks like I misinterpreted a SketchUp comment about starting over after losing your Mac. I don't intend to throw shade on your results, which are excellent!

RE: MoI -- The current version runs perfectly on my work M1 Studio, and on my home M2 Mac Mini.

M.
 
Looks like I misinterpreted a SketchUp comment about starting over after losing your Mac. I don't intend to throw shade on your results, which are excellent!

RE: MoI -- The current version runs perfectly on my work M1 Studio, and on my home M2 Mac Mini.

M.
Good to know.

Yeah, my sister accidentally allowed my 2011 iMac to get hauled away by Got Junk when we were clearing out my mother’s house after she passed away. Fortunately before that happened I had transferred everything to my then new M3 iMac on which SketchUp Pro runs very well, much better than it did on my old 2011.

But losing my old iMac did cost me some things: I lost my Adobe CS4 (which wouldn’t run on my M3) and I’m not paying Adobe’s stupid subscriptions. So I’m looking at alternatives such as Affinity Pro or Pixelmator Pro which are reasonable one time purchase licences.

I also lost my perfectly good optical drive and the new iMacs (like so many computers today) don’t have a built-in optical drive. So at some point I’ll have to pick up an external disc drive.
 
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Guys, you’re all right that technically, the Leif was not meant to be a Trek ship. But it WAS designed by Jefferies, it WAS meant to follow the two iconic Trek models, and it DID incorporate the same “submarine in space” logic Jefferies used for the DY-100. I would think his intention was for it to be an Earth design from somewhat later. Not as advanced as the ringship but more advanced than the DY-100.

I could see that as an in-system craft.
The core even looks a bit like the DS9 Defiant.
 
When Larry Niven was writing the novel 'The Mote in God's Eye' he had a model of the Leif Ericson sitting on his desk. The books description of the MacArthur is based on the model, right down to the large swinging bay doors.

I really like the design, had an original kit with the record and eventually lost it, got the UFO edition later on which I will see what my current techniques will do with it....
 
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Mote is one of my all time favorite SF novels. And the Leif is the basis of MacArthur. The only adjustment is that it would have a more circular cross section. Less flat and whisky bottle shaped. The hangar doors would bulge more so they would present a "flat" surface under spin gravity.
 
Still here, folks, and haven’t forgotten. But something new has come to my attention. Something that could be very interesting, to me anyway.

So we all know about 3D printers, but what I hadn’t known until very recently is how affordable these things have become. It’s no longer astronomical and accessible just to people with money to burn. What this means to me is that some of my designs could actually be done in physical form because my program SketchUp Pro can export files in STL format.

First thing that popped into my head were the TAS shuttlecraft designs I re-imagined as how they could appear on TOS. Then there are many of the designs I’ve done and will be doing in this thread.

This just added a whole other aspect to this project. I would still design within the parameters I established for the project, but now the designs could be realized in physical form beyond an interesting 3D computer render.

My brain is spinning thinking about this…

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I hope you pursue this possibility.
I wish I had tech-bro levels of money—so as to have printed models filmed by an Eclair NPR 16 mm camera, were it possible. Texas Chainsaw used that with Ektachrome film which needed bright light—and I think it would match older film just on account of being newer.

You would have proper “remastered” footage then.
 
A coworker clued me into this. I was under the impression these thing were in the tens of thousands or at least thousands of dollars, but she informed me you can a decent one in the hundreds. Her husband has one and makes all kinds of sci-fi and fantasy stuff with it—she showed me pucs.

So this is a real possibility I will look into further.
 
I have a friend who has 3 or so 3-d printers and makes (and sells!) stuff all the time. They are definitely cheaper and better quality than they were when they came out.
 
If you really want to salivate check out the 3D printing work of one of Doug Drexler's friends, Russell Meyers. Doug featured some of his work on his FB page.

 
Yippee!!!

You are back!!!

Great idea to 3D print them...

You might find out that some things aren't quite as they should be...

Why do I say this? Because others translating, let FJ's Constitution class to 3D images found problems...

Going to real world???
 
*Sigh*

It's been a loong year and a half. I've popped back in here every so often to keep the thread alive so not to have to start another if this one went dormant for more than a year.

But now finally, things are looking up to get back on track. I've been in my new home for just over a year now and I can't believe it's almost a year I've had my new car (and, yeah, once in awhile I still reminisce about my CrownVic). But even moreso it's hard to believe my mother has been gone a year and a half...

More on point to the subject at hand. Last year I bought a new computer, as I mentioned somewhere upthread--an M3 iMac with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD. To that I added a Minisopuru USB-C hub/doc with enclosed Samsung 990 Pro 2TB backup storage. I next installed SketchUp Pro as well as Maxwell 5 to continue my modelling work. Then I ran into a problem, one I've been fussing with off-and-on (mostly off due to distractions): I cannot seem to activate Maxwell's licence.

Now SketchUp Pro 2024 is optimized for Apple silicon, their M series processors, but it seems Maxwell 5 isn't optimized (although I've been told that is coming...whenever). It still shouldn't be a problem because on previous M series Macs you could install Rosetta for emulation to run programs not yet optimized for Apple silicon. And it should be as easy as toggling on a switch in SketchUp to activate Rosetta. Problem is my version of SketchUp Pro 2024 (or '25) doesn't have that option to switch on Rosetta. I even tried installing Rosetta manually and it made no difference.

I've also tried activating Maxwell's licence manually and it's still not working. I'm presently communicating with someone at Maxwell who is trying to help me sort this out, so hopefully we can get this working. However, if I cannot get Maxwell to work then I will be looking at alternatives such as Ambient Occlusion or Blender or whatever.

Nonetheless, there's no reason I can't get back to modelling even if I don't have a dedicated rendering engine yet. That said in the current version of SketchUp Pro there are plugins available allowing you to render your model in real time within SketchUp to see your model's progression--this could be a temporary solution until I sort the other thing out.

To that end I'm dedicating more thought and sketches to what the starship Valiant referenced in "A Taste Of Armageddon" could have looked like if we had seen an image of it on a bridge overhead display. This isn't a design that TOS would have had to build (although I will be building it), but it could have been depicted on a vewscreen as a schematic or illustration as a set background detail (I did the same thing for the Valiant referenced in WNMHGB, although I intend to revisit that design at some point).

I know I already created a design for the old Valiant referenced in "A Taste Of Armageddon" some years back, but I want to revisit it because I'm now thinking of perhaps something different from I did before.

To that end I've put on my Trek archeology hat to try figuring out what direction go in. The easiest answer, of course, would be a somewhat devolved version of the familiar Constitution design. But bear with me.

By the time we get to "A Taste Of Armageddon" we're deep into the first season, about 4/5 of the way through. By that time some elements of TOS' in-universe backstory have been revealed to us--more specifically "Where No Man Has Gone Before," "Balance Of Terror" and "The Menagerie."

"Where No Man Has Gone Before" informed us humans have had interstellar spaceflight for at least two centuries thus explaining how the Galactic Survey Cruiser Valiant managed somehow to reach the edge of the galaxy (we won't quibble at this point about which edge it reached). We can safely assume the old Valiant wasn't a Starfleet vessel (Starfleet having not yet been established onscreen) and that it wasn't anything like the Enterprise given some of Kirk's references. But I think we can reasonably assume the Valiant had at least some early form of FTL or space warp propulsion to get deep into interstellar space.

"Balance Of Terror" informed us that Earth had fought an interstellar war a century earlier with an alien race known only as Romulans. We eventually learn the Romulans are likely an offshoot of the Vulcans who are aligned with Earth and (as will be later established) members of the Federation. In more technical respects we learn the ships used by Earth (and those of the Romulans) were "primitive" by standards of the TOS era. This suggests something more advanced than the old Valiant yet still significantly less advanced than ships of the TOS era. Spock always endeavours to be precise so he likely wouldn't use the adjective "primitive" rather than "less advanced" unless it more accurately conveyed what he was describing.

"The Menagerie," through its incorporation of the bulk of Star Trek's unaired first pilot episode, gives us a bit more detail of TOS' historical backstory. More specifically the reference by Lt. Jose Tyler that, "The time barrier has been broken. Our new ships can..." This begs the question how much weight do we give this reference? By incorporating "The Cage" into TOS' regular onscreen production a lot of what is seen and heard there is given canonical weight. It now becomes a matter of how it can be interpreted particularly in light of what we have already learned of TOS' backstory.

When "The Cage" was being produced Star Trek's in-universe backstory was a complete blank slate. I suspect the reference to a time barrier being broken was likely to suggest that the Enterprise's faster-than-light space warp capability was a relatively new development. For a 1960's television audience it's not a bad assumption for storytelling purposes. But in-universe it doesn't make much sense at all. If the Enterprise is already on patrol in deep interstellar space then how could a slower-than-light ship also have reached that far out only eighteen years prior? When you line this up with earlier references made in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Balance Of Terror" it seems likely the Columbia referenced in "The Menagerie" did indeed have some faster-than-light space warp capability. So Tyler's reference could mean that ships prior to the TOS era were a lot slower even though they still had warp capability. Tyler's reference to a "time barrier" could mean he is implying a significant advancement in starlight propulsion over the past twenty some years. And even if we don't know how old or new a ship the Columbia was.

Now we get to "A Taste Of Armageddon" and the reference to the starship Valiant that disappeared in the Eminiar star system fifty years prior. Right off we know this isn't the same Valiant mentioned in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" because not only was that ship 150 years older, but it was also destroyed. We can also assume the newer Valiant should be more advanced than the "primitive" ships Spock referenced in "Balance Of Terror." However, this Valiant predates (or is of the same era as) the Columbia mentioned in "The Menagerie" by maybe forty years so it precedes the "time barrier" advancements Lt. Tyler mentioned. Given this reasoning then how likely is it this Valiant is a devolved variant of the Enterprise design?

Realistically the Valiant could still be something of a variant of the Enterprise design, but perhaps not as close a variant as the design I explored some years back. Back then I took one of Matt Jefferies' earlier concepts for the Enterprise and fleshed it out as a pre TOS era starship. It still works for what I intended, but it might not really be appropriate for the design of the Valiant.

So here I am pondering a new design that might incorporate elements of my previous design.


An abandoned design that might be worth revisiting. This design has elements similar to the Antares I designed for "Charlie X."

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My previous design for the Valiant. Not bad actually if I may say so.





 
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Navigator Jose Tyler's comment?

A great deal of weight. It speaks of a sudden change in capability.

A few years later, and 'Where No Man Has Gone Before' is the result. A ship capable going out to the edge of the galaxy in a reasonable amount of time.

But! It also implies (both episodes) that the political situation was too hot to send ships far out.
 
There is no reason to believe there is any significant difference in the Enterprise’s capabilities between Pike’s era and 13 years later in Kirk’s era. But the capability of ships 18 years prior to the Pike era is quite a different thing.

Additionally in Season 2 we would learn that Richard Daystrom’s duotronic breakthrough (which “revolutionized” starship computer systems) 25 years earlier falls right in that period Jose Tyler was referring to. The Columbia disappeared 31 years before the events of the two-part “The Menagerie” (18 years before the Enterprise’s first visit Talos IV plus another 13 years until Spock hijacks the Enterprise to get Pike back to Talos IV). A year or so after the events of “The Menagerie” in “The Ultimate Computer” McCoy references Daystrom’s breakthrough 25 years earlier. So 31+1=32 minus 25 = 7 years between the Columbia’s disappearance and Daystrom’s breakthrough. And 18-7=11 years before the Enterprise first visits Talos IV. This is right around the time when the Constitution-class ships could be being developed. The Connies could be one of the Federation’s first major classes of ships with the significantly advanced space warp capabilities.

Of course, is there a connection between Daystrom’s duotronic breakthrough and the great leap forward in starship propulsion? Maybe, maybe not. But it could be the duotronic systems operated significantly faster than previous computer systems allowing for incredibly fast calculations for higher warp speeds and navigating at those speeds. So Daystrom's breakthrough could have been a major factor is developing significantly faster warp starships.

I suppose an analogy could be drawn from history in the switch from sail to steam powered ships or the switch from propeller to jet driven aircraft. In both cases speeds were dramatically increased within a few years of introduction of the new systems.


This all seems to tie together rather neatly, but I seriously doubt the writer's of TOS gave these matters anywhere near the degree of thought we're giving it. For them this probably just sounded right as they wrote the scripts and we have no indication whatsoever that anyone on staff was keeping track of this minutia for later reference. So they, and we, got lucky.

But over the years fans have given this stuff a lot of thought. That's why we're fans. And so you can see why quite a few of us could take issue with how things were depicted in ENT where nothing seen there gels with the picture of the pre TOS era created during TOS' production. Little to nothing about it looked relatively "primitive" as Spock described it. I'm not talking about the quality of the vfx or the storytelling, but the level of science and technology depicted and how things appeared to work.

But that's really a different topic of discussion...
 
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I know you're experimenting with Sketch-up, but if you have any spare cash around, I can't recommend enough my favorite 3D modeling program for mechanical models: MoI3d (Moment of Inspiration). https://moi3d.com/

At $295 it is well worth the price for a professional-grade solid surface modeler, built especially with the needs of the artistic (and non-technical) modeler in mind. Starship modeling is a breeze, with CAD tools doing perfect boolean operations with no polygon artifacts. I've modeled the big E with polygon-based tools twice; but, my latest effort was a breeze -- right down to the modeled windows--with MoI:

MoI solid model:
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Finished in Blender:
QJwhWLv.jpg


In any case, I am following your progress with enthusiasm.

M.

Damn! This is nice!
 
I've popped back in here every so often to keep the thread alive so not to have to start another if this one went dormant for more than a year.
Sorry, just seeing this now. Please don’t worry about that. In the Fan Art section I’m not just going to close a thread because no-one has posted in it. I understand that the way creative motivation works it can be a long time before an artist is able to return to a project; so I would never just close someone’s thread because of inactivity. :)
 
I have long wondered if the "edge" was 'up' or 'down' from Federation space, rather than all the way over there.
This has been discussed a lot over the years. The most likely assumption by most is “the edge” is the outer edge of the galactic disk. But it really could also be the upper or lower plane or “surface” of the galaxy. If so then “the edge” would be only about 1500 ly away rather than 20,000 ly. 1500 ly is a lot more plausible than 20,000 although for a low warp ship thats still a helluva long haul. Although it’s never been explicitly explained there is a potential inference in WNMHGB that the Valiant encountered some sort of phenomena or “storm” that swept the ship out to where it encountered the galactic barrier. Kirk and company do wonder how the Valiant managed to get so far out where no one could imagine them to be.
 
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@Warped9 you forgot the Steam Yacht Turbina.

Easy to overlook.

For those who don't know the inventer of the steam Turbine couldn't sell in idea to Whitehall (the British Royal Navy Headquarters). They didn't believe him...

So, the Royal Navy hosts Her Imperial Royal Majesty, Queen Victoria ( one of the best blessedly best British Monachs ever), and during the Parade, here's this comparatively small 'boat' weaving in and out of the flotilla -- fast!
Sold right there...

In 1905 the HMS Dreadnought is launched...and the rest as they say is history...

Before this steam power used very large steam pistons, which above eighteen knot, would basically shake the ship apart. Which is why we get Scotty being worried...
 
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