Unseen TOS....
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
Personally I don’t think the familiar Enterprise like configuration happens until the late 22nd to early 23rd century period, And candidly there is nothing that argues the Archon and later Horizon were Federation or Starfleet vessels. They could easily have been something else.
I think the Archon and Horizon predate the Federation, Starfleet and certainly the Prime Directive (certainly in the Horizon’s case).
I could easily see the Archon being something like the Endurance design I just posted upthread.
I think the Archon and Horizon predate the Federation, Starfleet and certainly the Prime Directive (certainly in the Horizon’s case).
I could easily see the Archon being something like the Endurance design I just posted upthread.
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I thought it fortunate that Lokai would return the Enterprise's own Galileo shuttlecraft after the Enterprise dropped it off at Starbase 6 in the previous year for repairs after its near destruction in The Immunity Syndrome. After its repair, the Galileo must have been transferred to Starbase 4 to catch up with the Enterprise which was stationed there for the last eight months. Shortly before The Way To Eden, Kirk renamed the shuttlecraft "Galileo II" on the three year anniversary of the original Galileo being destroyed in The Galileo Seven to commemorate the loss of two Enterprise crewmen
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Evidence using original VFX and given Stardates (assuming 1000 Stardates = 1 solar Earth year):
- Galileo lost in The Galileo Seven on Stardate 2823.8. Two Enterprise officers were killed in action.
- Galileo replaced. (Probably ~Stardate 2950 at Starbase 11 when the Enterprise pulled in for repairs after the ion storm).
- Galileo used in Metamorphosis on Stardate 3219.8; Journey to Babel on Stardate 3842.3; and The Immunity Syndrome on Stardate 4307.1 when it was heavily damaged by the Space Ameba. At the time, Enterprise was near Starbase 6. (Possibly the damaged Galileo was dropped off for extensive repairs.)
- Shuttlecraft stolen from Starbase 4 by Lokai two weeks before Let That Be Your Last Battlefield on Stardate 5730.2. Happens to be the Enterprise's own Galileo.
- Galileo is rechristened as Galileo II. (Conveniently, this can occur on the three year anniversary, Stardate 5823.8, to commemorate the loss of the original Galileo and its two officers killed in action.)
- Galileo II is used in The Way To Eden on Stardate 5832.3.
Bele’s invisible ship was a clever, albeit sneaky, gimmick to save money. It did add an air of mystique to the moment. But under better circumstances you can bet they would have come up with something more interesting.
Of course, this is largely the point of my Unseen project—to explore what could possibly have been done given TOS had had a bit more time and money.
Of course, this is largely the point of my Unseen project—to explore what could possibly have been done given TOS had had a bit more time and money.
Spock gives a "configuration" for Bele's ship that can be used in spec'ing his ship:
So, a one or two-man rapid scout vessel build for speed with unknown motive power and no identifiable weaponry. Of course, you can't see it because it is sheathed in special materials that renders it invisible. Here is a picture of it:
Spock gives a "configuration" for Bele's ship that can be used in spec'ing his ship:
So, a one or two-man rapid scout vessel build for speed with unknown motive power and no identifiable weaponry. Of course, you can't see it because it is sheathed in special materials that renders it invisible. Here is a picture of it:
I have that model on my shelf.
The more sketching I do the more I’m convinced of Jefferies’ thinking—spheres look awkward and front heavy. They sap energy out of a design. Spheres are just too clunky.
I’m not doing any spheres, not for Earth or Starfleet ships.
Presently I have three more basic concepts evolved from my Endurance design.
Please stay tuned.
I’m not doing any spheres, not for Earth or Starfleet ships.
Presently I have three more basic concepts evolved from my Endurance design.
Please stay tuned.
Spheres may work best for invisible hulls—-but Bele’s ship might work as a group of right-angle prisms as seen farther down the page here:
https://skullsinthestars.com/2013/04/25/physics-demonstrations-cloaking-device/
That prism grouping even has a TOS look about it.
The author of the page even has his own book on the subject coming soon:
https://skullsinthestars.com/2022/10/08/invisibility-has-a-cover-and-a-release-date/
https://skullsinthestars.com/2013/04/25/physics-demonstrations-cloaking-device/
That prism grouping even has a TOS look about it.
The author of the page even has his own book on the subject coming soon:
https://skullsinthestars.com/2022/10/08/invisibility-has-a-cover-and-a-release-date/
Here’s the relevant dialogue about the Horizon:
CHEKOV: Approaching Sigma Iotia Two, Captain.
KIRK: Standard orbit, Mister Chekov.
UHURA: Captain, I have received vocal contact from an official station. They relayed us to a man named Oxmyx. His title is Boss.
KIRK: Boss? All right, Lieutenant, put him on. Oxmyx. This is Captain James T. Kirk of the starship Enterprise, representing the Federation of Planets.
OXMYX [OC]: Hello, Captain. You're from the same outfit as the Horizon?
KIRK: Yes. Unfortunately, the Horizon was lost with all hands shortly after leaving your planet. We only received her radio report last month.
OXMYX [OC]: Last month? What are you talking about? The Horizon left here a hundred years ago.
KIRK: Difficult to explain. We received a report a hundred years late because it was sent by conventional radio. Your system is on the outer reaches of the galaxy. They didn't have subspace communication in those days.
OXMYX [OC]: Toward the edge of what?
KIRK: I'll explain it in more detail when I see him. The ship won't land, but we'll transport several people down. Well, that's a little difficult for you to understand, too. I'll explain it in more detail when I see you.
The two revealing bits of info from this exchange is that the Federation is the same ‘outfit’ which visited the Iotians a century before, and the implication is that the entire ship landed on the planet (since there was no transporter tech at the time.)
So right there, this invalidates the ‘Daedalus’ design as the Horizon, as there’s no way a ship like that was meant to land on a planetary surface. I see the design as akin to the Vulcan lander from ST:FC (only in a more Earth-centric configuration.) It would have looked nothing like the saucer/ball primary hull and tubular secondary hull with nacelles on pylons that typifies most Starfleet vessels.
Once again, you have an older slower Earth vessel in the outer reaches of the galaxy.
Maybe a flatter ship like this?
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Erewon_class
Rick’s Chronology version looks tall but sturdy:
https://www.deviantart.com/dragonpyper/art/USS-Horizon-292555710
That’s as close Trek ever came to the Nostromo.
Maybe a flatter ship like this?
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Erewon_class
Rick’s Chronology version looks tall but sturdy:
https://www.deviantart.com/dragonpyper/art/USS-Horizon-292555710
That’s as close Trek ever came to the Nostromo.
Which doesn’t negate my point. The Horizon’s captain could say the same thing. But then if the Iotians of the time didn’t have radio he wouldn’t have to have said even that. The Iotians could have seen a shuttlecraft landing and not known one thing from another. My mother thinks cable, internet, DVD player and TV are all the same thing—it’s all TV.
Candidly beaming down somewhere where you don’t know if the inhabitants could understand such a thing mightn’t be the smartest thing. Landing by shuttlecraft would have been more like what the Horizon’s crew had done.
And what would the Iotians have understood of the Federation? When asked whether the Enterprise was from the same outfit as the Horizon, rather than trying to explain a change of organizations to well, simpletons, it might simply be easier to say, “Yeah, sure, whatever.”
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I get that. I’m the type of person who usually takes what’s written in the script at face value, precisely because it’s a script and not people actually speaking in real life. To me, if the author intended something, that’s what they’re going to write. They’re not going to say something but mean something else, because the reader can’t read their minds. But there’s no reason why someone else can’t liberally interpret the lines. I choose to interpret the lines literally, so the Horizon was a Federation ship and the entire thing landed on the surface of Iotia.
Well that’s better than a Jeffries concept design for the Enterprise, or that thing from ENT.
The thing with the Deadalus concept is that they didn’t develop it. They didn’t flesh it out. They took the sketch as is. Imagine if you took the first rough sketches of what was fleshed to be the Enterprise as the final form—it would look childish. And thats what the Daedalus looks like to me. The concept looks like a starting point, not the final form. There have been fan efforts that have looked better because they used the concept as a starting point rather than the end point. I’ve done the same thing with my sphere designs or the ringship idea.
The NX-01 is an exercise in overt familiarity. They didn’t want to risk anything that looked too different. So they went simply with slapping a pair of cylindrical nacelles to a saucer. The other element is largely a matter of different production standards—the NX-01 looks and is depicted as too advanced for the stated era. It’s an early 21st century depiction of a fictional 22nd century set before a 1960’s depiction of a fictional 23rd century era. It’s not gonna gel very well.
DSC and SNW suffer from the same problem. Instead of being honest and saying they’re depicting a different continuity they’re insisting it’s the same continuity and claiming this is what pre TOS really looked like. Yeah, we get that production standards and expectations have changed, but it’s carried way too far.
Excuse me, but to hell with that shit.
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While I agree with you 100%, I fear that bringing up the Horizon has segued your topic into ENT/CBSTrek bashing, and that wasn’t my intention. Sorry about that. It’s just that I think most Trek fans who’ve been around as long as I have (I’m 50) have had their own preconceived notions about what the universe before TOS was like, and ENT and DSC/SNW was most certainly not how I would have depicted it.
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