Unseen TOS....

[Markonian]

Further elaboration. If I use my Valiant design as a strong indication of what mid to late 21st century Earth ships were like then there’s my springboard for what mid 22nd century Earth combat ships could be like.

That said I don’t see period Earth combat ships being ringships. By this point I think rings have largely evolved into nacelles. A design I have from several years back could indicate how designs evolved—rings became multiple nacelles and cylindrical hulls sometimes became spherical in tandem with an engineering support cylinder hull aftward, and spheres evolved into saucers.

For a combat vessel I think the ships would be largely cylindrical for simplicity of mass construction. Not long after this era the spherical hulls would disappear.


Early to mid 22nd century Earth starship concept prior to and going into the Earth/Romulan War. In terms of large scale construction design would be simplified and perhaps more rudimentary and utilitarian. Pictured is a design for a deep space exploratory vessel.

This happens to dovetail nicely with the Ceres-class from the ENT novels. It's a three-nacelled improvement over the Daedalus class. In the novels, it doesn't catch one because the workhorse Daedalus remain ship and easy to produce.

 

[Warped9]

This really has no relevance here, but I designed this as part of my TAS Made Real thread. This was my take on what a live-action version of the Bonaventure could look like if it had been designed during TOS’ production. It does sorta tie-in as a successive design to the three-nacelle Constellation I posted upthread.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Warped9, will your Romulan war designs be inspired by @Mark 2000 work or will it be something different? In your opinion, were those ships bulkier or smaller and did they have stealth technology? It would be interesting because of that war the Romulans decided to go with a cloak because their ships were no match to TOS pre-Starfleet technology.

 

[Henoch]

Warped9, will your Romulan war designs be inspired by @Mark 2000 work or will it be something different? In your opinion, were those ships bulkier or smaller and did they have stealth technology? It would be interesting because of that war the Romulans decided to go with a cloak because their ships were no match to TOS pre-Starfleet technology.

Good thoughts. Was the biggest advantage that Starfleet possessed high-FLT warp drives, while the Romulan's didn't (either Sublight, light or low-FLT speeds)? I'd imaging that some sort of long range subspace sensors also helped, so that, Earth ships could warp in on weaker number of foes, dump their nuclear missiles at them, then warp away before any much slower Romulans could respond. With this battle scenario, the Romulan's only choice is to use stealth to avoid detection, especially long range detection, in the first place. With stealth, the Romulan's regain the ability to set up and attack on their initiative. The Romulans would be able to conduct hit-and-run or ambushes. When Starfleet responds and warps in ships not knowing the enemy strength, they might find nothing, or it could turn into an ambush.

 

[Warped9]

While I can find a lot of different works interesting and inspirational, ultimately I have to try to stay in the lanes I set out for this project: what might Matt Jefferies or Wah Chang have done given the sources and influences they had at hand.

I have found Masao’s Starfleet Museum website fascinating, particularly his Romulan War era designs. I sense a lot of insightful thinking in what I see there and it stays true to the TOS aesthetic. A lot of later work I find interesting, but also it’s evidently envisioned through the lens of later Trek series like ENT.

Designing pre TOS ships is largely a thought exercise, albeit an entertaining one, given there really is very little opportunity for such designs to have been seen in the existing TOS episodes. In the case of “Balance Of Terror” we might have been able to glimpse a century old Romulan vessel if an image of it had been displayed on one of Spock’s overhead displays at the science station or on the briefing room viewer. As filmed all we have is Spock’s quick verbal reference to “primitive” vessels with “primitive” atomic weapons.

Still one can try to fill in some of the blanks.


*Correction: as far as I can tell there is no briefing table viewer yet in "Balance Of Terror" so any glimpse of a century old Earth or Romulan ship would have to have been seen on Spock's overhead displays on the bridge.

 

[Henoch]

*Correction: as far as I can tell there is no briefing table viewer yet in "Balance Of Terror" so any glimpse of a century old Earth or Romulan ship would have to have been seen on Spock's overhead displays on the bridge.

They did have computer interface station plus a Volume of Comets handy, but Spock did not need to reference the book since he previously read and memorized it.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Is it conditioned for us to think Romulans always had stealth technology? I am thinking the Romulans made a strategic mistake in battling a human race they'd thought were inferior similar to Deutschland rolling the dice in invading the Soviet Union. The Romulans didn't know what hit them when invading Federation space.

 

[fireproof78]

This really has no relevance here, but I designed this as part of my TAS Made Real thread. This was my take on what a live-action version of the Bonaventure could look like if it had been designed during TOS’ production. It does sorta tie-in as a successive design to the three-nacelle Constellation I posted upthread.

Probably one of the better looking renders of that ship.

 

[Warped9]

Is it conditioned for us to think Romulans always had stealth technology?

ENT is where they laid that egg. Prior to that there was nothing to indicate the Romulans had cloaking tech during the Earth/Romulan war.

And given the parameters of this project is to focus solely on what was known in 1966 then there is nothing in “Balance Of Terror” that suggests cloaking tech existed before the Enterprise faces off with the Romulan Bird of Prey.

We are given scant background on the war or the ships used to fight it. Thats partly why the nuggets dropped in James Blish’s adaptation of the episode were so compelling and readily adopted by fans. Did Blish make up the entire backstory or did he embellish something he read in early script drafts?

Besides cloaking tech one element I really took issue with in ENT was how the period Warbirds looked like upgraded versions of the TOS ship in “Balance Of Terror.” They were very nice designs in of themselves, but they looked like they belonged in the TMP era. An interesting thought, really, that the Romulans eventually ditched using Klingon ships and went back to their own designs long before the TNG era.

 

[aridas sofia]

It would be ridiculous if Earth faced a power with a cloak and a hundred years later still hadn’t figured out how to defeat it other than by flying through dust.

 

[fireproof78]

It would be ridiculous if Earth faced a power with a cloak and a hundred years later still hadn’t figured out how to defeat it other than by flying through dust.

Not really. Stealth tech, including cloak, is always changing.

 

[aridas sofia]

Not really. Stealth tech, including cloak, is always changing.

As is adaptation. But they acted as if they had never seen anything like it before, claiming it was “theoretically possible”.

KIRK: I don't see anything. I can't understand it.
SPOCK: Invisibility is theoretically possible, Captain, with selective bending of light. But the power cost is enormous. They may have solved that problem.

It is ridiculous that given the way they reacted, it pre-existed that episode and had been used by the same adversary they faced already.

 

[fireproof78]

As is adaptation. But they acted as if they had never seen anything like it before, claiming it was “theoretically possible”.

KIRK: I don't see anything. I can't understand it.
SPOCK: Invisibility is theoretically possible, Captain, with selective bending of light. But the power cost is enormous. They may have solved that problem.

It is ridiculous that given the way they reacted, it pre-existed that episode and had been used by the same adversary they faced already.

Well, that's on ENT to be sure. But, the larger idea is basically complete invisibility vs. something more akin to a Predator style cloak, or adaptive camouflage.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

This really has no relevance here, but I designed this as part of my TAS Made Real thread. This was my take on what a live-action version of the Bonaventure could look like if it had been designed during TOS’ production. It does sorta tie-in as a successive design to the three-nacelle Constellation I posted upthread.

I like this design a lot. It's kinda funky 40s/50s sci-fi with Matt Jefferies sensibilities.

 

[STEPhon IT]

As is adaptation. But they acted as if they had never seen anything like it before, claiming it was “theoretically possible”.

KIRK: I don't see anything. I can't understand it.
SPOCK: Invisibility is theoretically possible, Captain, with selective bending of light. But the power cost is enormous. They may have solved that problem.

It is ridiculous that given the way they reacted, it pre-existed that episode and had been used by the same adversary they faced already.

This angle was what I loved about "Balance of Terror" the impression I had was the Bird of Prey was a prototype and altho it was interesting it did have limits... it wasn't the grand super weapon other iterations had made it to be. It's fun to see our heroes discover the threat's Achilles heel, it exposes the stealth tech are just as fallible as the ones who were using it.

 

[Warped9]

The overall impression is that Romulan ships and tech are really not as advanced as what the Federation has at this point. It could be partly why they made a deal with the Klingons—a stopgap measure in order to catch up technologically.

During the war Earth and the Romulans could have been on more of an even footing. But since the cessation of open hostilities Earth and the Federation advanced greatly while the Romulans don’t appear to have made nearly as much headway.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

This angle was what I loved about "Balance of Terror" the impression I had was the Bird of Prey was a prototype and altho it was interesting it did have limits... it wasn't the grand super weapon other iterations had made it to be. It's fun to see our heroes discover the threat's Achilles heel, it exposes the stealth tech are just as fallible as the ones who were using it.

A fun little battle analysis for "The Balance of Terror":

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[Warped9]

I have let this thread languish for too long. But it hasn’t been that far from my thoughts. Real life can be a pain the way it can derail you.

But I really want to get back to this project, and ideas have been percolating in the back of my mind. Recently I’ve been thinking about Stiles remark that Romulan ships should be readily recognizable because they painted their ships like giant birds of prey. I don’t take that to mean the old Romulan ships were shaped exactly like birds (the TOS BoP certainly isn’t), but that it’s overall form was meant to evoke something predatory in motion while having a menacing avian creature painted on its hull.

I’m thinking the Earth ships would be somewhat more utilitarian in design, and I’m having ideas about that.

I’ll try to get something sketched out to share.


A friendly reminder to anyone new dropping in on this thread, in case you haven’t digested the beginning. At this point our perspective is it’s still 1966 during TOS’ first season. The subsequent seasons haven’t happened yet and certainly none of the successive Trek films and series don’t yet exist either. The only sources and influences that exist for us to consider are what existed back in the day. In speculating on “new” TOS designs we also consider what could be manufactured at the time as opposed to what could be done in cgi now. In some cases a physical miniature would work yet in others an illustration is all that would be needed.

 

[Warped9]

In some cases a physical miniature would work yet in others an illustration is all that would be needed.

Regarding ship designs for the Earth/Romulan War—although I will be making 3D versions of them they would need only to appear as illustrations on some obscure viewscreen in “Balance Of Terror.” These designs are of interest purely from a fan perspective because they would serve no truly relevant purpose story wise. At best a glimpse of a century old Romulan ship could underline Stiles remarks about their appearance.

 

[aridas sofia]

Weird serendipity- I have sketches of four Romulan ships from the Earth-Romulan War that I drew about 20 years back that I pulled out about a week ago and started fiddling with to accompany the 20 or so Earth ships I‘ve drawn.