Unseen TOS....

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Warped9, Feb 5, 2021.

  1. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I’m finding myself starting to think about the Antares from “Charlie X.”

    In the episode the two Antares crewmen we saw were wearing older “The Cage” era style uniforms. Maybe the Antares was low in priority in having new uniforms issued to them? Or they had been out in the boonies for a long time and haven’t yet gotten back to base where they could have arranged for new uniforms?

    If we accept WNMHGB happened pre 5yr. mission then the Starfleet uniform change is relatively recent.

    In the episode was the Antares referred to alternatively as a survey vessel and a merchant vessel? I don’t recall off the top of my head. I do recall the James Blish adaptation describing the ship as quite a small craft compared to the Enterprise.

    It goes without saying I’m not swayed by the retconning of a version of the robot freighter from TAS as the Antares.

    The time is 1966 and early in TOS’ production as a series. The first episodes haven’t even been aired yet. Gotta figure out what Matt Jefferies and/or Wah Chang could be thinking if tasked with whipping something up for a scant few seconds onscreen.

    Unlike “The Cage” and “Where No Man Has Gone Before” where the referenced ships were vessels lost many years earlier, this is a case where the ship referenced is in the here-and-now and supposedly holding station right next to the Enterprise. We should have seen it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
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  2. tesral

    tesral Commander Red Shirt

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    Dental floss, two nickles. and a cheese sandwich, remember?
     
  3. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    Chakoteya transcripts answer that pretty handily, but the answer is that it's not clearly defined.

    KIRK: Captain's Log, star date 1533.6. Now maneuvering to come alongside cargo vessel Antares...

    KIRK: A survey ship with twenty men aboard lost. No reason...

    KIRK: Captain's Log, star date 1535.8. UESPA headquarters notified of the mysterious loss of science probe vessel Antares...​

    Twenty men indicates a ship probably way teenier than the Enterprise. I imagine something like 1/20th the volume of the Enterprise.
     
  4. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    The descriptions lean more toward a science/survey vessel that could, of course, transport a modicum of cargo on its route. With a crew of twenty and being relatively small it likely isn’t meant to stay out on its own very long.
     
  5. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    Did you ever see the Antares as drawn in the 1995 edition of the Star Trek Concordance? It's on page 278. An illustration by one Brian Pimenta. That's my personal favorite Antares.

    --Alex
     
  6. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I have a copy of the Concordance. I’ll have to refer to it.
     
  7. BK613

    BK613 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Ship size.
    Modern container ships can exceed 1000 ft in length yet have very small crews. Fro example, the Maersk E-class ships are 1,304 ft 9 in (397.7 m) long yet only has a crew of 13 (with accommodations for 30.) Crew size isn't always an indicator.

    Edit to add: The Kobayashi Maru listed a crew of 81 for a vessel 777.6 ft (237m) long but it was carrying 300 passengers (so some of that crew was probably "hotel" staff.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
  8. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I found the Antares drawing in the Concordance. It’s pretty much as I remembered it.

    I also refreshed my memory of some of the interesting designs John Byrne drew in Star Trek comics Crew and Leonard McCoy: Frontier Doctor. Byrne was more imaginative and less derivative.

    I already have some general ideas for the Antares, but I want to look around a bit more for period inspiration.
     
  9. tesral

    tesral Commander Red Shirt

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    Mine is the 1976 edition, only 256 pages.
     
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I wish mine wasn't packed :( I love that book.
     
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  11. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    The 1995 edition is greatly expanded and includes TNG era info as far as it concerns the TOS characters.

    --Alex
     
  12. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    With the Valiant I used a bit of future history conjecture from the perspective of the early to mid 1960s. For the Antares it’s about creating a design whole cloth that belongs to the same era as the Enterprise, which at this point in production was the only far future design we had yet seen.

    One thing we can safely assume is that Matt Jefferies would most likely have avoided a kitbash in terms of simply rearranging familiar Enterprise parts. But how dissimilar would he have gotten?

    I think the one element we can safely include are nacelles. By the time of the Enterprise that would appear to be the established propulsion configuration for Earth/Federation deep space ships. The other implied aspect of the Antares is that it’s of modest size given a crew complement of only 18-20.

    Beyond that it looks to be an open book.

    A smallish ship might not be that elaborate in terms of overall shape. It could be roughly cylindrical with added bits to make it more interesting. A compact saucer or even something spherical might be upfront. Is the ship meant to be able to land, or do we accept the transporter and auxiliary craft are the means to reach a planet surface?

    I am again thinking of possible period influences as a jumping off point for design.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021
  13. Kahloke

    Kahloke Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    One of the most delightful aspects of this project of yours is the attempt to put yourself into Jefferies’ 1965 headspace. I have very much enjoyed reading and watching your work progress. Thank you for sharing!

    Might a good jumping off point for the Antares be AMT’s “Leif Ericson” model kit? It was, if my limited web searching proves correct, designed by Jefferies, and released in 1967. It could very well have been a design direction he had mulled a few years prior while designing the Enterprise. I would posit that the producers would’ve been more inclined to approve the construction of a “guest ship” shooting model if it could be marketed as a kit to the fans, similar to how the shuttlecraft ended up being built.

    Just a thought!
     
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  14. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Based on the info on the back of the model box for the Galactic Cruiser Leif Ericson, it's more in line for the SS Valiant era...note the forward "bridge" looks a lot like the Botany Bay along with the rear fins. The year is 2075.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021
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  15. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Do we know when the Leif Ericson was actually designed? I’ve always thought it was done sometime after TOS’ production, but the notes on the box state it was originally released in 1968. So it was designed sometime during TOS’ first two seasons of production.

    I always struck me as a more alien design rather than of Earth/Federation origin. With the wings it made me think it was meant to land and yet it had a shuttlebay.
     
  16. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    I had no idea they did a re-release of that kit with all the extras. I had the original back in the 70’s with glow-in-the-dark plastic in all its radioactive goodness!

    Thinking about the date - 2075... we would be so lucky if we were a star-faring species by then and building ships like that. Just only a little over 50 years away, now...
     
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  17. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I could be misremembering, but it’s possible MJ had sketched out parts of this design as he was working towards the Enterprise’s final form. If so he evidently rejected it perhaps as looking too near future and maybe too pulp sci-fi like, which I think it does. I know Star Trek Continues resurrected this design as an Orion ship for their episode “Lolani.”

    Presently, and I could change my mind, but I have some vague idea inspired by the McDonnell-Douglas F4 Phantom fighter jet which entered service in 1961.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021
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  18. tesral

    tesral Commander Red Shirt

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    Side note, kinda. The Leif Ericson was lifted wholesale for the INSS MacArthur in the Mote in God's Eye, Niven and Pournelle.
     
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  19. Kahloke

    Kahloke Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I agree that the design does skew more towards an ‘alien-of-the-week’ appearance. A lot of that has to do with the fins at the rear, and the odd cowling covering the nose of the craft. My mind’s eye (and I apologize for chiming in on your project without being able to contribute properly) sees a much more “UESPA” design if the cowling and fins/wings were to be removed, and a deflector dish installed at the front of the ship. From a production point of view, it might be a selling feature of the imaginary studio model, having it be an Earth vessel that could be modified easily to portray an alien ship. First season TOS always had the feel of an ‘emptier’ galaxy, with Earth vessels rarely bumping into aliens. Of course, that all changed...

    Your F-4 idea sounds intriguing. I look forward to reading your progress and process.
     
  20. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Perhaps, there is some sort of deflector dish under the hollow nose cone like current jet fighters have a radar array/dish under their nose cones. MJ's Enterprise sketches originally show a nose cone over the deflector. Another thought is that there is no deflector dish, rather the nose cone is designed to "bounce" dust and debris off it. A "conning tower" is seen in Matt Jefferies' old sketches. Conning tower and fins are seen on the Botany Bay. I like the artistic connections to Star Trek.

    As for crew size, it looks like it can crew about a hundred people.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021