Unseen TOS....

[trynda1701]

One small point, considering all the above discussions.

Remember, @Warped9 is trying to design what he envisaged a Matt Jefferies TOS series Phaser rifle might look like, as opposed to the WNMHGB pilot version, styled after the P1/2 astetic.

I myself might have started Phaser 1 snapping into the rifle body (I think that's what the fan film New Voyages/Phase 2 variant might have, inherited from Starship Farragut I believe?).

But remember, all our talk above is influenced by later tech talk. Roddenberry himself always said, the stories were what counted, not necessarily the tech. What was the phrase he used "does Joe Friday stop to discuss how his service revolver works?"

All the above previous posts are valid, but @Warped9 is trying to think what Matt would have come up with in 1966 or so.

 

[aridas sofia]

If the phaser 1 is the “brains” and the phaser 2 is the “brawn”, both might be needed for a phaser 4. The phaser 1 might be the means to detect where a person wants to fire, and ascertain when they are ready to fire. It might contain the “safety” that prevents the beam emitting when anything behind it slips in front of it.

Phaser 2 is clearly the “brawn” per “Devil in the Dark”, and the power pack is key per “Omega Glory”. But it is hard to believe such a small power pack could supply a particle beam weapon of any duration. Instead a phaser may be a laser beam amplified by a negative energy “shell” that focuses it and keeps it focused. The antigravity nature of negative energy would give the shell “push” but I’m not sure whether that would result in recoil. It would be pushing against the laser beam, from around it, and not pushing opposite to the direction it is being fired.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

A stock would primarily used for aiming, to steady the arm/hand so the shot doesn't go wide. Even with the basically imperceptible recoil of an energy weapon, keeping the aiming arm steady is essential to proper usage. Of course, this would be true mostly for sharp-shooting/sniping, as melee weapons have never needed to be precise.

True. By "primarily," I was referring to what in the swappable component was contributing to the creation of the ultimate beam. I probably could have worded what I said more clearly. To me, it can really make sense for that sort of component only to upgrade the power pack itself, and the primary reason for this conclusion is because the phaser-2's emitter would be used in the described configuration.

 

[Warped9]

If I recall the basic idea of how Phaser 1 and 2 worked it was the pistol grip increased the power and range. The removable power packs suggest the power is not all coming from the Phaser 1.

A Phaser 3 could mean a Phaser 2 snapped into a rifle stock. And a Phaser 4 could be completely independent unit.

The WNMHGB phaser rifle was an independent unit. The idea of a newer version being integrated with the Phaser 2 is a notion never committed to and established onscreen. Therefore the older phaser rifle design establishes a precedent of an independent unit.


If we assumed the pistol phaser snapping into a stock for added power and range maybe it might look more like a machine gun than a rifle. That would be more effective in terms of more close range use as opposed to a rifle which is more suited for long range use.

In truth there could be all kinds of configurations dependent on intended use. On standard duty an Enterprise class ship isn’t likely to be carrying a detachment of marines and requisite hardware ready for heavy combat. As such standard hand weaponry isn’t going to be of the heavy combat type.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Roddenberry himself always said, the stories were what counted, not necessarily the tech. What was the phrase he used "does Joe Friday stop to discuss how his service revolver works?"

What that means is that descriptions of the fantasy tech don't interrupt the flow of the stories. That has no bearing on whether the fantasy engineering issues should be considered as part of the artistic process when it comes to designing the props. The props have to look cool, but they also have to be practical to produce, and they have to seem practical for the characters to use to the point that they assist rather than hinder suspension of disbelief.

 

[Scott Kellogg]

Okay, you want a silly idea?
How about a Gatling Phaser?
A whole bunch of phaser 1's on a ring, that rotate into position and fire.

 

[trynda1701]

What that means is that descriptions of the fantasy tech don't interrupt the flow of the stories. That has no bearing on whether the fantasy engineering issues should be considered as part of the artistic process when it comes to designing the props. The props have to look cool, but they also have to be practical to produce, and they have to seem practical for the characters to use to the point that they assist rather than hinder suspension of disbelief.

See where you're coming from.

Okay, you want a silly idea?
How about a Gatling Phaser?
A whole bunch of phaser 1's on a ring, that rotate into position and fire.

1) Let's give @Warped9 a chance to design the Phaser rifle.

2) Are you insane!

 

[aridas sofia]

Officers were issued handguns in the militaries in which Roddenberry et al served. And Roddenberry said everyone on Enterprise was an officer. He also said they were more paramilitary than military, which relates to the police with which he was familiar. And of course, police carry pistols. At least they used to. All this might have contributed to the decision to ax the phaser rifle.

Those security guards wore red shirts, however. Royal Marines wore red in the Age of Sail of Hornblower and Aubrey. I think those security guards were the marines, and if that’s true, they would have been equipped as the situational demands dictated. Whether THEY were officers is debatable. I think there is room for a heavier phaser for them to use to facilitate a broader range of storytelling. And I think it makes sense that if it was necessary, they’d be issued something like the TMP security guards’ armor. It’s hard to explain why we never saw anything like this on say, Cestus III, but that can perhaps be chalked up to the surprise nature of the attack.

 

[tesral]

But it is hard to believe such a small power pack could supply a particle beam weapon of any duration.

Hence the "Fiction" aspect. Also would a Knight from the 1300s think that something a small as the cartridge of the .45 ACP could kill?

We are told that Krellite cells are very energy dense. And the couple of phaser overloads we have seen show it.

They never explain in show how many shots you get with one power pack at full power. I doubt it is very many. Several games do so, if you want to go that way.

 

[aridas sofia]

The size of the power pack gives some indication of what the phaser could do. Just as a goldfish bowl cannot supply a firehose with enough water to put out a house in flames, I doubt a power pack that size could supply the stream of mass needed to do the things the phaser is shown doing. Even if you postulate it is stored in some degenerate form, the pistol would weigh a ton.

It may be fiction, but it is science fiction.

 

[Warped9]

I do appreciate all the feedback.

I suspect cost and need played into not developing a newer version of the phaser rifle. They never felt the need story wise so they never bothered with a newer version or reusing the old version. A pity in a way because a phaser rifle might have been handy when initially hunting the Horta.

 

[UssGlenn]

If we assumed the pistol phaser snapping into a stock for added power and range maybe it might look more like a machine gun than a rifle

So something reminiscent of the Thompson Sub-Machine gun, with it's 2 grip handles, each a power pack? Kirk and Company certainly didn't have trouble wielding them in "A Piece of the Action".

 

[trynda1701]

I could see a rifle slightly smaller than the WNMHGB version, in black body and silver shorter emitter, maybe without the antenna, and sightly curvier, with Phaser 2 design cues, if you see what I mean.

The trigger handle might not now be the power pack, that would be in the main body. So modifying the original prop, to save costs, but match the new P1 & 2s?

 

[Warped9]

The more I think about it the more I like the sub machine gun style or something akin to it as a concept.

 

[BK613]

Because the handle of the phaser II is the power pack and is removable, maybe the body of the phaser II could plug in separate from the power pack.

 

[publiusr]

I could see a stock held to the side a bit--the stock woul go up and over...fitting where the phaser I fits. You keep phaser II as the emitter and forward grip. The rear stock swings perhaps.

Nothing says you have to have something straight. The Zuckuss/Jord Dusat blaster rifle for example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/182292767201

The Draco Double Burner AR-2 should have been a phaser:
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Alien:_Resurrection#Draco_Double_Burner_.28Assault_Rifle_Mode.29
https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Draco_Double_Burner
https://heroprop.com/product/alien-resurrection-ar2-draco-double-burner/

 

[nightwind1]

I could see a rifle slightly smaller than the WNMHGB version, in black body and silver shorter emitter, maybe without the antenna, and sightly curvier, with Phaser 2 design cues, if you see what I mean.

The trigger handle might not now be the power pack, that would be in the main body. So modifying the original prop, to save costs, but match the new P1 & 2s?

Saw this design at: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/starfleet1701st/tos-phaser-rifle-phaser3-t1228.html

 

[publiusr]

Now that is nice!

 

[trynda1701]

Saw this design at: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/starfleet1701st/tos-phaser-rifle-phaser3-t1228.html

That's similar to the one on the Farragut/Phase 2 fan films, except theirs does have a Phaser 1 on top. Will be interesting to see @Warped9 comes up with.

 

[Spaceship Jo]

Saw this design at: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/starfleet1701st/tos-phaser-rifle-phaser3-t1228.html

That's fun!

But also, I can't help feeling a bit like how some folks seem to feel about the Church(JJ)Prise: an ungainly distortion of a great design. I'd much rather see something different with similar design ethos rather than something that looks like a totally different design ethos made to appear the same.

For instance, that length to width ratio works great for a one handed weapon, but for a longer two hander looks... a bit thick. Yes, the pilot rifle is relatively wide but in a totally different style. Generally, two handed weapons don't get that wide in relation to single hand weapons unless you've gotten up to the point of being shoulder mounted.

I'm quite looking forward to whatever Warped9 cooks up!