I thought it was pretty well established that Meyer asked Fletcher to take inspiration from the uniform designs in the 1937 film The Prisoner of Zenda.
Uniforms
- Thread starter PCz911
- Start date
This actually comes from one of the original sources of inspiration for Trek in Heinlein's "Space Cadet." The Solar Patrol in the book consisted of officers, junior officers and cadets, with no enlisted ratings. There are arguments that can be made for both, but enlisted ratings certainly saw an increase as series went on.
As for the uniforms, I certainly see the basics being there, but the TWOK uniform jacket served a much more important purpose in that uniform set up than the field jacket in "The Cage." Mostly because the TWOK jacket had rank, department, years of service and other decorative devices. The field jacket was just a protective outer garment.
I think, that if you took the TWOK undershirt and put rank and insignia on it, you would have a functioning uniform that would look similar to the Cage ones. In my opinion, a very nice looking uniform, but the ranking has to be there. I think that is J.T.B.'s point, but I could be wrong
As far as uniforms go, I personally always favored a layered approach and the TWOK one could do that very well, if the right details are placed on the undershirt. I saw one fan art that had the undershirt with full decor, a dress jacket and a cold weather jacket.
Here is a concept that I had, based upon Murdock's post, and a combination of different elements-this is not meant to rip off of anyone specific, just some brainstorming that I lack the talent to draw. Take the TOS department colors for the main shirt, with a black neck, like Murdock's photo.
You then take the TWOK jacket design, but remove the years of service pins. Instead, use the rank striping like TOS's ranks were represented. If you want enlisted personnel, you have the ranks on the shoulder instead of the cuff. The jacket would be for dress uniform purposes, be black or gray (haven't decided) and have the belt, plus department coloring down the closure, with the turtleneck showing department color as well. Any award ribbons would be displayed like on the TOS dress uniform or in TUC on the admirals' uniforms.
Just realized this turned in to a long rant. Thank you to all who actually read it, and to Murdock who inspired this...
Then there's always all those uniforms near the end of Star Trek IV. All those extra badges, pins and doodads, which looked pretty arbitrary to me.
It just seems like it would be a big inconvenience to wear those maroon jackets every single day. They look like dress uniforms. Which is why I focused on the undershirts. Unless the Starfleet fitted their ships with the finest air conditioning units, everyone wearing those uniforms would be suffering daily.
Exactly.
Those uniforms were probably only uncomfortable in hot, humid conditions. Aboard a climate-controlled starship, they were likely nice. If this era of Starfleet was patterned even loosely off the Old British Navy, then officers very rarely did any kind of strenuous work in those jackets (no crawling around Jefferies Tubes). When an officer was forced to do some manual labor or was working someplace hot, he or she simply removed the jacket and then put it back on later, IMO.
Those massive air conditioning units had to be brought back in the 2370s with the advent of the FC uniforms:
That's a lot of quilting!
Or they'd wear a vest like Scotty's. He thought it was all that and a bag of chips.
Yep, that's been repeated many times. I don't know how true it is, or to what extent it is the only influence. After all, for years Gene Roddenberry denied that Forbidden Planet influenced Star Trek, even though today it is widely reported that he acknowledged it and a memo eventually turned up supporting the claim that he borrowed from it: http://startrekfactcheck.blogspot.com/2013/07/gene-roddenberrys-cinematic-influences.html
I just find the TWOK uniforms minus the jacket to essentially be The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before uniforms, and the field jackets to be imitative of TWOK jackets with the flap and all. Having seen The Prisoner of Zenda (including the later version with Steward Granger), I can say that the uniforms are pretty generic 1800s Prussian/French style tunics and jackets. In fact, the uniforms are closer in the Granger version to me than in the 1937 version, and if anything, seem to have influenced the uniforms on TV's Buck Rogers and in David Lynch's Dune more than Star Trek.
Men wear suit and sport coats all the time in "climate controlled" environments.
I always found that argument silly anyway. Just because it's 70 degrees or whatever doesn't mean everyone is comfortable.
A suit jacket and sport coat aren't made of thick materials anyway. The Maroon uniform jackets look to be made of heavy duty materials and that wrap around and overlay for that matter. That on top of a long sleeve tunic is bound to cause a lot of heat. But I really can't back that up since I've never worn one of those Maroon jacket uniforms. But I have worn a suit jacket and the ones I have are made of thin, lightweight materials. Using this picture as an example, the Maroon jacket is obviously thicker than a standard sports coat. It's like comparing a t-shirt to a wool sweater.
I knew something didn't look right with my TWOK uniform redesign...Just take my design, merge it with the Galaxy Quest uniforms and you got the wiggles costumes. BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD!
They aren't THAT bad...i'd say keep the top row shirts, combine with bottom row striped pants, add STRIPES *AND* pin insignias, and they'd look great. ANy way you can photoshop that on TMP pictures?
Last edited:
I can give it a try.
But how do we know the material would be the same as what we wear today? Beyond that, different body types will tolerate heat or cold differently than others.
A suit jacket and sport coat aren't made of thick materials anyway. The Maroon uniform jackets look to be made of heavy duty materials and that wrap around and overlay for that matter. That on top of a long sleeve tunic is bound to cause a lot of heat. But I really can't back that up since I've never worn one of those Maroon jacket uniforms. But I have worn a suit jacket and the ones I have are made of thin, lightweight materials. Using this picture as an example, the Maroon jacket is obviously thicker than a standard sports coat. It's like comparing a t-shirt to a wool sweater.
I don't know, none of us will. I'm speaking about the costume itself.
I can see how the actual costume might be an issue for today's actors, though I've been on a few TV sets and can say they are often cold except when directly under the lights. Perhaps movie sets are similar, and it would actually be comfortable to wear something heavier.
In terms of a uniform, though, whenever this debate comes up, people want to assume the fabric would behave just like one today -- as though that must be wool because the costume is a wool. But this is supposed to be the future, with transparent aluminum and Retinax V. There's no reason to believe fabrics in that time period would have to behave like fabrics today. After all, we also watched them beam down to any number of environments on TOS just wearing the standard uniform. There must have been something adaptive in them.
I would like to point out, as a matter of discussion, that uniforms are also designed as much for their visual appeal as their material. The uniform provides a ready visual identifier of the person's rank, department and seniority within Starfleet, or other military type organization. Materials should be chosen that can adequately accommodate both the visual image and the work it is designed for.
As much as I like the TWOK uniforms, the officers jackets look too cumbersome for shipboard work. Even if the officers are just on the Bridge, sitting at their stations, and the materials are adaptive, in some way, they still look pretty heavy duty.
But, the idea of adaptive materials is an appealing one, but the visual impact has to be kept in mind too, if that makes sense.
From a strictly production point of view, the TWOK jacket was wool, so I would imagine that it was hot for the actors.
