Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility be?

[Gov Kodos]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I was wondering whether abortion would be an argument at all if the grandparents (either paternal or maternal) were awarded custody of a child as soon, or soon after, the child was born and the grandparents applied for child support from both of the child's parents? The 'she could have had an abortion" couldn't really be applied in such a situation and it is a lot easier to see that such support is indeed a 'child's rights' issue not a 'woman's rights" issue.

If they're alive, if not or they don't want the child, then what. It also amounts to adoption over abortion anyway and demands that the woman give birth when pregnant. She has no choice in the matter.

 

[horatio83]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

There are also a lot of grandparents who love their grandchildren dearly, but wouldn't want to raise them. They have raised their children already...this is their time to reconnect with each other and do the things that they delayed while they raised their families (travel, etc.).

Grandparents (can) have an important influence upon children that is based on the very distance they have towards the immediate mother-father-children core of the family.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

What I was trying to do in my scenario was to show the separation of the needs of a child from the actions of the mother. I though if I presented a case where the child and the mother were separated it would show that the child's needs are the only thing that matters when it come to child support.

The courts seem to have no trouble in separating a child's rights from the actions of the mother. I can't understand why it seems to be a problem for so many people to separate them. Abortion issues should not be a factor in child support cases at all.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

What I was trying to do in my scenario was to show the separation on the needs of a child from the actions of the mother. I though if I presented a case where the child and the mother were separated it would show that the child's needs are the only thing that matters when it come to child support.

The courts seem to have no trouble in separating a child's rights from the actions of the mother. I can't understand why it seems to be a problem for so many people to separate them. Abortion issues should not be a factor in child support cases at all.

I see, but when your post had mentioned abortion at the outset, it led me to think this idea was an alternative to abortion.

I was wondering whether abortion would be an argument at all if the grandparents (either paternal or maternal) were awarded custody of a child as soon, or soon after,

If your concern was only adoption and child support, you might have started differently. Simply as an adoption issue, keeping a child withing family is a possibility, but which family, the mother's or father's? What if no family members want the cost or responsibility of supporting a child?

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I think this my first post in this thread I have tried to point out that the abortion issue Is separated from any child support issues. i have tried to state this several times but each time it is ignored and some people just continue on about how the actions of the mother (i.e. having or not having an abortion, or lying aboirt contraceptives) should be taken into account.

My whole point has been that such actions have nothing to do with child support. The only thing that matters is that the child should be supported by both parents no matter who is raising the child. The only thing that can break the parents' responsibility is adoption when the child legally obtains a new
set of parents (or sometimes just a parent) .

The law does separate the needs of the child from the actions of the parents and that is the way it should be.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MsHCqrrU-Gk[/yt]

Maybe if it worked like this for us this wouldn't even be a talking point.

 

[Mary Ann]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Now you're just confusing the simple-minded even more.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Now you're just confusing the simple-minded even more.

Well I didn't want to make it harder than it had to be, so I said as little as possible while posting the video.

 

[chardman]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Yet another reason people should not have sex unless they are married.

True, but it is also yet another reason people should only engage in sex acts that don't involve actual intercourse (known to many religious prudes as "empty acts") until/unless they are ready to have kids. Plenty of ways for a couple (or whole group of people) to satisfy each other without engaging in actual genital to genital contact.

Or, to put it another way...

​

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I think this my first post in this thread I have tried to point out that the abortion issue Is separated from any child support issues. i have tried to state this several times but each time it is ignored and some people just continue on about how the actions of the mother (i.e. having or not having an abortion, or lying aboirt contraceptives) should be taken into account.

My whole point has been that such actions have nothing to do with child support. The only thing that matters is that the child should be supported by both parents no matter who is raising the child. The only thing that can break the parents' responsibility is adoption when the child legally obtains a new
set of parents (or sometimes just a parent) .

The law does separate the needs of the child from the actions of the parents and that is the way it should be.

I stated this very early in the thread, but it was mostly ignored.

 

[Shanndee]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I think this my first post in this thread I have tried to point out that the abortion issue Is separated from any child support issues. i have tried to state this several times but each time it is ignored and some people just continue on about how the actions of the mother (i.e. having or not having an abortion, or lying aboirt contraceptives) should be taken into account.

My whole point has been that such actions have nothing to do with child support. The only thing that matters is that the child should be supported by both parents no matter who is raising the child. The only thing that can break the parents' responsibility is adoption when the child legally obtains a new
set of parents (or sometimes just a parent) .

The law does separate the needs of the child from the actions of the parents and that is the way it should be.

I stated this very early in the thread, but it was mostly ignored.

I completely agree (and I'm sorry that I misunderstood your earlier post Miss Chicken).

I was mainly watching the back and forth (and derailing) of this topic...then some comments were made that raised my hackles and I foolishly took the bait.

I would hope that when a child is born that the needs of the child are put above all else...but I think that many of us have seen (and experienced) that this is not always the case, even with the law on our side.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

These abortion vs child support threads can really annoy me at times because I can't understand why people seem to have such a hard time separating children's rights issues from women's rights issues. A child is not responsible for his/her parentage so should not be penalised for the actions of his/her parents.

If the parents have some sort of problem with the child's conception or events that occurred during the mother's pregnancy let them fight it out independent of the child's right. If the father thinks he was tricked/scammed by the woman he should be able to sue her for civil damages but still pay child support. If she stole his sperm than then maybe damage payments should be equal to or more than the amount of child support.

Only for the last 25 years has it been easy for the woman to prove who was the father of her child. If it is current child support laws are 'unfair' on fathers (I don't think they are) than the proceding milleniums were far more unfair on children, and on the women that bore them, as they could easily be totally deserted by the fathers.