Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility be?

[horatio83]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

But freedom without responsibility to use it wisely is its own kind of slavery. It is a slavery to the most instinctive and base desires people have and marks them as uncivilized savages and not a thinking, growing people.

So when I have sex with my girlfriend I am a slave to my instincts but when I marry her, have sex with her, impregnate her, force her to have a child against her will (because I have a right to my "genetic heritage") and kill the doctor who would conduct the abortion I am a wise and civilized man?

 

[Shanndee]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I have no problems with contraception or married couples having sex anytime they want for any reason they want.

But you did say that a woman who had plans for her life that did not include motherhood should not have sex. I believe that you even said that it wasn't rocket science.

Why is it suddenly different if a married woman has plans for her life that do not include motherhood? Or is it just that you don't know very many couples who make the choice to have lives that do not include children?

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I have no problems with contraception or married couples having sex anytime they want for any reason they want.

But you did say that a woman who had plans for her life that did not include motherhood should not have sex. I believe that you even said that it wasn't rocket science.

Why is it suddenly different if a married woman has plans for her life that do not include motherhood? Or is it just that you don't know very many couples who make the choice to have lives that do not include children?

Both. I don't know ANY married couples who do not plan to EVER have children. I'm sure there are some out there but I would think they are a very small minority.

My belief is that if your life plans mean ABSOLUTELY NO PREGNANCY OR CHILD EVER, then you should simply forego having any kind of sexual relationship.

But if you are 100% confident in contraceptive measures then I do not guess it matters for married couples anyway.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

But freedom without responsibility to use it wisely is its own kind of slavery. It is a slavery to the most instinctive and base desires people have and marks them as uncivilized savages and not a thinking, growing people.

So when I have sex with my girlfriend I am a slave to my instincts but when I marry her, have sex with her, impregnate her, force her to have a child against her will (because I have a right to my "genetic heritage") and kill the doctor who would conduct the abortion I am a wise and civilized man?

You can't force a person to do anything. Nor have I advocated using force.

The first part of your post is accurate though.

The last part? Please do not kill doctors. It is wrong and counterproductive in the long run anyway

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I have no problems with contraception or married couples having sex anytime they want for any reason they want.

But you did say that a woman who had plans for her life that did not include motherhood should not have sex. I believe that you even said that it wasn't rocket science.

Why is it suddenly different if a married woman has plans for her life that do not include motherhood? Or is it just that you don't know very many couples who make the choice to have lives that do not include children?

Both. I don't know ANY married couples who do not plan to EVER have children. I'm sure there are some out there but I would think they are a very small minority.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data." I don't care who you know (or don't know.)

My belief is that if your life plans mean ABSOLUTELY NO PREGNANCY OR CHILD EVER, then you should simply forego having any kind of sexual relationship.

That's fine. You go ahead and believe that. Practice it, even. No one else is obliged to give a damn, though.

 

[horatio83]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

My belief is that if your life plans mean ABSOLUTELY NO PREGNANCY OR CHILD EVER, then you should simply forego having any kind of sexual relationship.

Bullshit, there are plenty of married couples who do not want children. Just take a look at the birth rate if you do not believe me.
My parents did not want anymore children once they reached a certain age so they used contraceptives. If you are a woman above 40 you might wanna think twice about becoming pregnant due to health risks so you should use contraceptives. I do not want any children so I use contraceptives.

Once again you want other people to follow your own sexual preferences for no apparent reason. And the consequences of this right-wing bullshit, propagating ignorance about contraceptives, can be seen via a quick look upon teenage pregnancy ratios in the bible belt.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

My belief is that if your life plans mean ABSOLUTELY NO PREGNANCY OR CHILD EVER, then you should simply forego having any kind of sexual relationship.

That's fine. You go ahead and believe that. Practice it, even. No one else is obliged to give a damn, though.

Word.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I have no problems with contraception or married couples having sex anytime they want for any reason they want.

I'm still against abortion though.

I really hate people taking someones beliefs and positions and stretching them all out of recognition to fit their own preconceived ideas.

I really hate people taking their beliefs and trying to push them on a nation of people whom all have their own different beliefs and no set of beliefs is required to be followed by the government.

Your beliefs tell you life begins at conception? Fine. The law and science suggests otherwise.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I share a conservative concern about a potentially evolving culture which views abortion as just another contraceptive.

I have yet to see any evidence of that happening.

The vast majority of abortions in the US are elective and unrelated to the mother's health.

Not what I meant: I should have espressed myself better. I wanted to say that I have yet to see evidences that most women resort to abortion as their preferable choice to avoid having a child. I'm pretty confident that using contracceptives (condoms, pills, whatever) is much more common than having abortions.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I really hate people taking someones beliefs and positions and stretching them all out of recognition to fit their own preconceived ideas.

And yet, in your very next post:

Apparently, anything, any idea that restricts people from having sex is utterly appalling to many of the TrekBBS posters.

Your hypocritical words betray you.

 

[Shanndee]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I have no problems with contraception or married couples having sex anytime they want for any reason they want.

But you did say that a woman who had plans for her life that did not include motherhood should not have sex. I believe that you even said that it wasn't rocket science.

Why is it suddenly different if a married woman has plans for her life that do not include motherhood? Or is it just that you don't know very many couples who make the choice to have lives that do not include children?

Both. I don't know ANY married couples who do not plan to EVER have children. I'm sure there are some out there but I would think they are a very small minority.

My belief is that if your life plans mean ABSOLUTELY NO PREGNANCY OR CHILD EVER, then you should simply forego having any kind of sexual relationship.

But if you are 100% confident in contraceptive measures then I do not guess it matters for married couples anyway.

Wow. I am almost at a loss for words. So a man and a woman who both have a very specific view of their future goals should be forced to endure a lonely, solitary existence just because they do not want children?

These two people should not want / do not deserve a partner in their lives, a companion, a person to love (and yes, love does have a physical component). Wow.

So my marriage should not exist? I am not 100% sure of our birth control methods. Every method indicates approximately 99% effectiveness. That has been good enough for close to 20 years. We have been responsible, but it is not impossible that the 1% might come into play...and we are not going to be parents.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I really hate people taking someones beliefs and positions and stretching them all out of recognition to fit their own preconceived ideas.

And yet, in your very next post:

Apparently, anything, any idea that restricts people from having sex is utterly appalling to many of the TrekBBS posters.

Your hypocritical words betray you.

No. What I've said is completely accurate.

But you did say that a woman who had plans for her life that did not include motherhood should not have sex. I believe that you even said that it wasn't rocket science.

Why is it suddenly different if a married woman has plans for her life that do not include motherhood? Or is it just that you don't know very many couples who make the choice to have lives that do not include children?

Both. I don't know ANY married couples who do not plan to EVER have children. I'm sure there are some out there but I would think they are a very small minority.

My belief is that if your life plans mean ABSOLUTELY NO PREGNANCY OR CHILD EVER, then you should simply forego having any kind of sexual relationship.

But if you are 100% confident in contraceptive measures then I do not guess it matters for married couples anyway.

Wow. I am almost at a loss for words. So a man and a woman who both have a very specific view of their future goals should be forced to endure a lonely, solitary existence just because they do not want children?

These two people should not want / do not deserve a partner in their lives, a companion, a person to love (and yes, love does have a physical component). Wow.

So my marriage should not exist? I am not 100% sure of our birth control methods. Every method indicates approximately 99% effectiveness. That has been good enough for close to 20 years. We have been responsible, but it is not impossible that the 1% might come into play...and we are not going to be parents.

Try not to take it personally.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I really hate people taking someones beliefs and positions and stretching them all out of recognition to fit their own preconceived ideas.

And yet, in your very next post:



Your hypocritical words betray you.

No. What I've said is completely accurate.

Prove it.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I have yet to see any evidence of that happening.

The vast majority of abortions in the US are elective and unrelated to the mother's health.

Not what I meant: I should have espressed myself better. I wanted to say that I have yet to see evidences that most women resort to abortion as their preferable choice to avoid having a child. I'm pretty confident that using contracceptives (condoms, pills, whatever) is much more common than having abortions.

That is certainly true. An abortion is a lot more time, expense, and effort than simply making effective use of preventive methods. Sorry I misunderstood you.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Since when can he prove anything? Scooby and the Mystery Machine Gang have a track record that blows his out of the water, so why even bother asking?

The last part? Please do not kill doctors. It is wrong and counterproductive in the long run anyway

And in the short run, because...well, you know...murder is murder and its morally and legally abhorrent. Heaven forbid that a completely unjustified homicide interfere with the long term anti-choice agenda or anything.

No, the agenda comes first.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

There are married couples who choose not to have children. There's nothing wrong with that decision. I would personally suggest researching the most effective methods of contraception, given that the consequences of something not working are very serious. For instance, vasectomy is probably more effective than tubal ligation--though any surgical procedure carries risks that should be taken into consideration before considering it.

Now, if I were in that situation and an accident with contraception resulted in my getting pregnant, I would be very unappreciative of any suggestion that I had become merely a "brood mare" because of the responsibility to carry the child to term instead of going out and getting an abortion--even if I were in a situation where I could not raise the child myself and needed to give him/her up for adoption. I would find any such insinuations to be quite out of line.

 

[Kemaiku]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I wish I could dance as well as you can, around this topic anyway.

 

[horatio83]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Now, if I were in that situation and an accident with contraception resulted in my getting pregnant, I would be very unappreciative of any suggestion that I had become merely a "brood mare" because of the responsibility to carry the child to term instead of going out and getting an abortion--even if I were in a situation where I could not raise the child myself and needed to give him/her up for adoption. I would find any such insinuations to be quite out of line.

This is a perfectly valid choice but giving up a child for abortion can be more painful than having an abortion.
The child has after all a right to know who you are so one day you will meet him or her again and be reminded that you were unable or unwilling to raise a child. Even if the folks who adopted this child are great parents the very fact of adoption might make the child feel unwarranted by his biological parents once he learns about this during puberty (I guess that is the best age to tell).

Whatever you do, abort or adopt, there are painful consequences. I find it sad that people on both sides of the argument are unwilling to admit this.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

The child has after all a right to know who you are so one day you will meet him or her again .

What makes you say that? A child has no "right" to meet or have any connection to their biological parents.

 

[Mary Ann]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

By your standards no one should have rights, so your statement is pointless.