Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
You avoided answering it. Craven.
You avoided answering it. Craven.
Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility be?
- Thread starter Gaith
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Knight Templar
Commodore
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
As long as religious people are allowed to vote and they vote according to their religious values, then I would say they have an interest in public policy issues like abortion and homosexuality.
Does THAT answer your question?
If it doesn't then I'm going to have to ask you to restate your question as I have no idea what it is based on what you've posted.
As long as religious people are allowed to vote and they vote according to their religious values, then I would say they have an interest in public policy issues like abortion and homosexuality.
Does THAT answer your question?
If it doesn't then I'm going to have to ask you to restate your question as I have no idea what it is based on what you've posted.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
The question you conveniently dropped and avoided?
The question you conveniently dropped and avoided?
And are still avoiding. Craven.
Knight Templar
Commodore
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
Ah. The answer is no that is not my position.
But thanks for caring enough to restate it.
Ah. The answer is no that is not my position.
But thanks for caring enough to restate it.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
The Constitution says otherwise, that whole separation of church and state being what it is. Craven.
Ah. The answer is no that is not my position.
But thanks for caring enough to restate it.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
That is only true for the Government, not its citizens, unless your saying that religious people should be stripped of their rights to vote in this democracy, is that what your saying??
That is only true for the Government, not its citizens, unless your saying that religious people should be stripped of their rights to vote in this democracy, is that what your saying??
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
They aren't out of the womb yet, but they are human beings and unique lives, who are sadly categorized under the law in the same class as animals are and slaves once were.
In some current adoptions, there are open adoption arrangements where the mother of the child can have a say in what family will adopt their child, and in some cases, receive a degree of news about the child or even have direct interaction with him or her. I'm sure that given that precedent, varying levels of involvement on the part of the woman who originally conceived the child could be arranged.
They aren't out of the womb yet, but they are human beings and unique lives, who are sadly categorized under the law in the same class as animals are and slaves once were.
In some current adoptions, there are open adoption arrangements where the mother of the child can have a say in what family will adopt their child, and in some cases, receive a degree of news about the child or even have direct interaction with him or her. I'm sure that given that precedent, varying levels of involvement on the part of the woman who originally conceived the child could be arranged.
Knight Templar
Commodore
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
Why are you saying "Craven" at the end of your responses to me?
And the U.S. Constitution says nothing about the separation of church and state.
The Constitution says otherwise, that whole separation of church and state being what it is. Craven.
Ah. The answer is no that is not my position.
But thanks for caring enough to restate it.
Why are you saying "Craven" at the end of your responses to me?
And the U.S. Constitution says nothing about the separation of church and state.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
Here is where the phrase "separation of church and state" originates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States
Here is where the phrase "separation of church and state" originates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
No, in this abstract situation I wouldn't want someone else raising my child. If I were to get pregnant and want an early abortion,I'd want an early abortion. Not for someone else to carry my child to term and then raise it.
They aren't out of the womb yet, but they are human beings and unique lives, who are sadly categorized under the law in the same class as animals are and slaves once were.
In some current adoptions, there are open adoption arrangements where the mother of the child can have a say in what family will adopt their child, and in some cases, receive a degree of news about the child or even have direct interaction with him or her. I'm sure that given that precedent, varying levels of involvement on the part of the woman who originally conceived the child could be arranged.
No, in this abstract situation I wouldn't want someone else raising my child. If I were to get pregnant and want an early abortion,I'd want an early abortion. Not for someone else to carry my child to term and then raise it.
Knight Templar
Commodore
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
Like I said "not in the constitution".
Like I said "not in the constitution".
Knight Templar
Commodore
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
That seems awfully selfish to deny it life just because something makes you "uncomfortable".
Talk about an abortion of convenience.
They aren't out of the womb yet, but they are human beings and unique lives, who are sadly categorized under the law in the same class as animals are and slaves once were.
In some current adoptions, there are open adoption arrangements where the mother of the child can have a say in what family will adopt their child, and in some cases, receive a degree of news about the child or even have direct interaction with him or her. I'm sure that given that precedent, varying levels of involvement on the part of the woman who originally conceived the child could be arranged.
No, in this abstract situation I wouldn't want someone else raising my child. If I were to get pregnant and want an early abortion,I'd want an early abortion. Not for someone else to carry my child to term and then raise it.
That seems awfully selfish to deny it life just because something makes you "uncomfortable".
Talk about an abortion of convenience.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
If non-involvement was what the woman who conceived a child sought, I would imagine that closed adoptions would be possible too, and that one could legally sign away any obligations of parenthood or support, just as a woman who doesn't want to be involved in the life of the child they're giving up for adoption after birth could do.
But the thing about this hypothetical future option is, you wouldn't even have to subject yourself to the "inconvenience" of pregnancy. Not that I think that is a legitimate concern in the first place, even in modern day, unless the mother's health is put at significant risk, but to me, it strikes me as rather self-interested to be concerned about one's own personal desires and convenience when another life is in question. The personal convenience of both mother and father should be subordinated to their child.
If the mother's health is in danger, that's a whole other question because the balance is genuinely a life versus a life, and that's a much tougher call. Two things that actually have equal standing.
If non-involvement was what the woman who conceived a child sought, I would imagine that closed adoptions would be possible too, and that one could legally sign away any obligations of parenthood or support, just as a woman who doesn't want to be involved in the life of the child they're giving up for adoption after birth could do.
But the thing about this hypothetical future option is, you wouldn't even have to subject yourself to the "inconvenience" of pregnancy. Not that I think that is a legitimate concern in the first place, even in modern day, unless the mother's health is put at significant risk, but to me, it strikes me as rather self-interested to be concerned about one's own personal desires and convenience when another life is in question. The personal convenience of both mother and father should be subordinated to their child.
If the mother's health is in danger, that's a whole other question because the balance is genuinely a life versus a life, and that's a much tougher call. Two things that actually have equal standing.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
But you would still know a child was out there that was your biological child. You might feel you had to either tell any future children you had about this sibling or keep it a secret from any future children. It's not like you can know your biological child is out there and just erase this from your life just because you signed some papers. Women who give up their children for adoption, even if they still know it to have been the right choice, live with it every day.
It's not a simple thing for the woman just because the medical technology kept her from carrying a pregnancy.
But you would still know a child was out there that was your biological child. You might feel you had to either tell any future children you had about this sibling or keep it a secret from any future children. It's not like you can know your biological child is out there and just erase this from your life just because you signed some papers. Women who give up their children for adoption, even if they still know it to have been the right choice, live with it every day.
It's not a simple thing for the woman just because the medical technology kept her from carrying a pregnancy.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
I can understand how a woman would rather abort an embryo who she saw as an non-person than let in be implanted into some other woman. If it was implanted than the natural mother would wonder about what person the embryo became and whether it was happy or suffering etc. If she aborted she would have no such worries.
I can understand how a woman would rather abort an embryo who she saw as an non-person than let in be implanted into some other woman. If it was implanted than the natural mother would wonder about what person the embryo became and whether it was happy or suffering etc. If she aborted she would have no such worries.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
After a certain stage of development. And even so, fetus/embryo =/ infant. Infants aren't aborted.
Oh, this is just being silly. The only thing (if anything) in the abortion debate that can be validly compared to slavery is when people invoke abortion as unholy murder and that women should be forced from the moment of conception to carry the child to term.
And if you're not careful, the child might come looking for you, drag you off to Maine, and you'll end up having to fight a dragon, and then where would you be... other than face-to-face with a firebreathing monster?
After a certain stage of development. And even so, fetus/embryo =/ infant. Infants aren't aborted.
who are sadly categorized under the law in the same class as animals are and slaves once were.
Oh, this is just being silly. The only thing (if anything) in the abortion debate that can be validly compared to slavery is when people invoke abortion as unholy murder and that women should be forced from the moment of conception to carry the child to term.
And if you're not careful, the child might come looking for you, drag you off to Maine, and you'll end up having to fight a dragon, and then where would you be... other than face-to-face with a firebreathing monster?
Knight Templar
Commodore
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
So the "worries of the mother" should supercede the life of the embryo?
Sounds like an extreme (and once again, very selfish) position to me.
So the "worries of the mother" should supercede the life of the embryo?
Sounds like an extreme (and once again, very selfish) position to me.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
Yes, the rights of a sentient being are more important than the right of a non-sentient being to life.
No more selfish than putting your right to eat a chicken before then hen's right to life.
Yes, the rights of a sentient being are more important than the right of a non-sentient being to life.
No more selfish than putting your right to eat a chicken before then hen's right to life.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
You put the word uncomfortable in quotes as if it was something that I said.
And yes, I might put my self-interests over that of an embryo or fetus.
You put the word uncomfortable in quotes as if it was something that I said.
And yes, I might put my self-interests over that of an embryo or fetus.
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