UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't contact)

[Deimos Anomaly]

Imagine there was as species that had an average lifespan of, say... 1,700 - 2,000 years. Really old ones, equivelant to human super-centenarians, might reach 3,000. Their childhood and adolescence doesn't last much longer than humans, so once they're grown, many many centuries of adult life lie ahead.

As a result of this, these people have begun exploring the galaxy using high-sublight ships, cruising at around 70% of C.

This is the kind of tech that was seen in Avatar for example. In that, a voyage to the Alpha Centauri system (4 ly) took 5 years and 9 months... humans could do it, though it was a long trip by human standards. Realistically anywhere beyond about 20 light years would be about the limit for single-generation ships carrying human explorers at sublight velocities.

However, for aliens capable of living to well over a thousand years old, sublight voyages to star systems many hundreds of LY away would be possible.

I wonder if the UFP or the Vulcans etc. ever ran across such a civ, what would their guidelines be for contact? To make contact or not to make contact?

On the one hand, they have colonies and territory sprawled across a few hundred LY of space, and multiple star systems, making them kinda hard to ignore. But on the other hand, they don't have warp drive, so technically by the Fed's own rules they should stay out.

It would be an interesting paradox if nothing else.

 

[SchwEnt]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

I cannot figure it out, my mind wobbles.

That's the thing of it, I guess. Much of the Prime Directive applies/assumes a humanoid-centric type of civilization, with somewhat parallel development (rudimentary spaceflight, followed by warp speed travel, etc),

And sure, in ST, with Hodgkins Law of Parallel Planet Development and all the humanoid type aliens, evidently the PD works.

But there can be vastly advanced alien civilizations with no interstellar travel, or some starfaring races that somehow are not all that sophisticated. Or some other really ALIEN type of civilization, that doesn't fit any kind of Richter Scale of Development. What's the procedure for a species or civilization that is beyond UFP experience, something truly unknown?

 

[C.E. Evans]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

I think that developing warp drive--or whatever form of FTL drive--is just a basic criteria for first contact, but that there are exceptions to this. Some civilizations may have already have contacted (or had official contacts from) other worlds, and while they may not have warp drive, they've already joined the larger galactic community. At that point, a FTL drive becomes less an indicator of their social progress but of their technological ability.

 

[SchwEnt]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

I'm reminded of the Iconians with their Gateways. They were able to move to other planets and/or times, evidently in an instant. That isn't any kind of warp technology or interstellar propulsion as known to Federation science, yet it would enable them to have contact with other worlds and races.

So the criterion of a "warp-capable" species fails in the face of Iconian Gateway technology, or many other kinds of alien tech. Just because a race isn't warp-capable (or stellar propulsion-equivalent) doesn't mean they should be isolated by PD standards.

 

[Jono]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

Given the species has viable interstellar travel I think the Federation would opt to make contact.

How they go about it might depend on whether that species has made contact with other aliens yet. If they have the Federation probably could be more forward without worrying about the social impacts of a species finding out it isn't alone. If not, they probably would opt for something like they attempted with the Malcorians in the episode "First Contact", covert monitoring and assessment and if they decide on first contact approaching the scientific community and easing things along.

As we saw in that episode just because the Federation wants to make first contact the first contactee can still reject their approaches and stick their heads in the sand concerning other sentient life out there.

 

[Timo]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

But on the other hand, they don't have warp drive, so technically by the Fed's own rules they should stay out.

But that's pure fanfic - there is no such rule in the aired version of Star Trek!

Our heroes have contacted sublight starfarers in many episodes, starting with TOS (say, "For the World is Hollow"). They have also contacted a generational warpship ("The Disease") and several other examples of interstellar vessels that would prefer to travel without contact to other planets or civilizations (say, "Distant Origin"). I don't see an established reason to shun away from contact with people who travel from star to star in, say, Bajoran-style lightsails or giant asteroid arks.

Indeed, one might argue that the Vulcans spied on Earth in warp-incapable vessels performing decades-long missions: the small ships seen in ENT "Carbon Creek" did not appear to feature known designs of Vulcan warp engines (rings or long and narrow nacelles), and were never credited with high speeds. Although the crashed one did have a person with warp engineering training aboard...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[E-DUB]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

My first attempt at writing a Trek story had an alien species of extreme claustrophobes for whom warp theory was nothing but a laboratory curiosity as they could not conceive of getting into closed spaces needed for space travel. They did not think of themselves as "pre-warp", but rather "non-warp". They did, however, have pretty advanced artificial wormhole tech.

As for your conundrum, I think that contact would be made as otherwise it'd be too hard to stay our of their way.

 

[BillJ]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

Our heroes have contacted sublight starfarers in many episodes, starting with TOS (say, "For the World is Hollow").

But wasn't the deck stacked there with Yonada on a collision course with an inhabited world?

 

[Gary7]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

"Pre-warp" is a broad term that is used extensively throughout the Star Trek franchise, but it's use with respect to the Prime Directive has been a bit ambiguous. As I see it, the term is used to indicate a vastly inferior technological level and a lack of exposure to extraterrestrial beings. Obviously, long distance interstellar travel is possible by other means (folding space, wormholes, inter-dimensional phase shifting, etc). I imagine that a long lived species traveling many hundreds of years towards a destination might be an exception to making contact.

The only problem I see with a very long lived species traveling to another very distant world is the issue of prolonged space travel. Think of the resources needed to sustain a crew that long, assuming they're not in cryogenic hibernation. There's also the issue of equipment continually functioning that long without any space dock maintenance. And lastly, if the crew does not spend most of the journey in hibernation, how do they keep from going batty/stir-crazy? Sub-light travel can be very boring when spanning the vast distances between solar systems, as there are no planetary bodies to scan and possibly investigate.


You might also be interested in reading the current Prime Directive topic being discussed.

 

[Timo]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

Long duration travel would probably call for exceptional discipline - but Vulcans might well be up to it, spending years in a vessel no larger than those seen in "Carbon Creek". (Then again, those vessels might have had warp engines of an unrecognizable type, or might have been deployed by warp-capable motherships with traditional ring drives.)

Reliability of technology seems to be less of a concern, though. We have seen many truly ancient machines that work without a hitch when reactivated, and this is not something that would surprise our heroes as such. Indeed, their own ships and those of their enemy are often encountered adrift, and reactivation is a fairly simple matter, the only machinery problems stemming from battle damage or the like.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Deimos Anomaly]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

You might also be interested in reading the current Prime Directive topic being discussed.

Ahem... I started it.

 

[Drago-Kazov]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

My first attempt at writing a Trek story had an alien species of extreme claustrophobes for whom warp theory was nothing but a laboratory curiosity as they could not conceive of getting into closed spaces needed for space travel. They did not think of themselves as "pre-warp", but rather "non-warp". They did, however, have pretty advanced artificial wormhole tech.

As for your conundrum, I think that contact would be made as otherwise it'd be too hard to stay our of their way.

That is an awesome idea.

 

[The Castellan]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

As we saw in that episode just because the Federation wants to make first contact the first contactee can still reject their approaches and stick their heads in the sand concerning other sentient life out there.

Sounds like what's happening today.

The BIGGEST gripe I have with the Prime Directive is that the government in First contact, not the people, told the Federation to go smeg off.....can you imagine what would happen if the people found out about this and missed out on the chance to meet alien life and to go on with their warp program, which was canceled, just to protect the traditional institutions? I personally think governments are the worst thing to consider when it comes to the overrated, and heavily flawed Prime Directive, since, as history shows, governments are not often in the interests of the people, but for their own benefits. I say making first contact with regular people, intelligent ones...because I would have loved to see that idiot in "first contact" with the glasses get what was coming to him, had he not murdered himself.

And given that The Enterprise directly dealt with civilizations that had no war travel, like the Armeanions, the Gideons, that planet where Jack the Ripper's ghost or whatever he was was hiding on, the Prime Directive, I think makes little sense to me.

And, personally speaking, if a civilization goes crazy and destroys itself, because it can not handle the simple truth that they are not alone in the universe, instead of celebrating and partying about it, than that civilization deserves everything that happens to it.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

The BIGGEST gripe I have with the Prime Directive is that the government in First contact, not the people, told the Federation to go smeg off.....

All because of a single person, with obvious psychological problems.

The woman who wanted to "interact" with Riker clearly had the proper idea concerning First Contact.

governments are not often in the interests of the people

A better way of achieving First Contact would to (I'm serious) be on something like the Oprah show, avoid the government (initially) and also avoid the dinosaur news networks, have a visitor from Alpha Centurion instead do a segment on the Bill O'Reilly show.

Get the information out there where a government can't stop it, have the alien be the grand marshal of a big parade in New York City in their honor.

 

[The Castellan]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

The BIGGEST gripe I have with the Prime Directive is that the government in First contact, not the people, told the Federation to go smeg off.....

All because of a single person, with obvious psychological problems.

The woman who wanted to "interact" with Riker clearly had the proper idea concerning First Contact.

governments are not often in the interests of the people

A better way of achieving First Contact would to (I'm serious) be on something like the Oprah show, avoid the government (initially) and also avoid the dinosaur news networks, have a visitor from Alpha Centurion instead do a segment on the Bill O'Reilly show.

Get the information out there where a government can't stop it, have the alien be the grand marshal of a big parade in New York City in their honor.

I like how you think. Had I been in the woman scientist's place, I'd have gone as well....especially today.

Myself, if I were a captain or Starfleet commander, I'd pretty much toss out the Prime Directive....in fact, I'd take a PADD or paper it's written on, put it on the floor, unzip my pants, whip it out and take a nice long leak upon it.

Also, I'd say have the ship fly over major cities, all over the world, and linger over them for a bit, so everyone can get a good look, like the 2010 Manhatten UFO sighting (and no one panicked, either. Surprisingly, the news media did not laugh at it, or do "cute" things like play the x-files theme or have some one in cheesy Klingon makeup show up), and where no one can deny it. Also, deactivate nuclear weapons silos as a sign of peaceful force...as in "we are superior to you, technologically, and we could have killed you, but we did not, because we are not invaders".

Don't invite any Bible Belt Christians (they are like the only religion I am aware of that is venomously against the idea of alien life.....Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Native Americans, and various African tribes, like the Doegon, mention star people and that they originate from Sirius, long before western culture even knew the world was round and astronomy and stuff) since they'd probably be trying to sabotage the Oprah show akin to that screw ball on "Contact". Also, I'd say have the world aware of the Brookings Report (page 215 if I remember correctly), done by the Brookings Institute in the late 50's, when the ink was still wet on the NASA charters, which is pretty much an even more twisted, corrupted, self induced take of the Prime Directive. I'd also have the starship hang over NASA head quarters as well as JPL, Truman's grave, Eisenhower's grave, and Churchill's grave, just to get the point across.

You think O'Reily would the best suited for a program like that?

 

[BillJ]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

Myself, if I were a captain or Starfleet commander, I'd pretty much toss out the Prime Directive....in fact, I'd take a PADD or paper it's written on, put it on the floor, unzip my pants, whip it out and take a nice long leak upon it.

You obviously wouldn't be a captain very long, provided you made it that far. The military tends to take their doctorines pretty seriously.

 

[Photoman15]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

When I saw the topic, I thought it was a thread for alien planets to put themselves on a DO NOT (First) CONTACT list.

 

[The Castellan]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

Myself, if I were a captain or Starfleet commander, I'd pretty much toss out the Prime Directive....in fact, I'd take a PADD or paper it's written on, put it on the floor, unzip my pants, whip it out and take a nice long leak upon it.

You obviously wouldn't be a captain very long, provided you made it that far. The military tends to take their doctorines pretty seriously.

If it makes ya feel better, I don't have respect for the military, anyhow. And seeing stories like Pen Pals, and that one where Worf's adopted brother gets in deep shit for saving a race instead of letting it die (hey, so long as their natural development's not affected, let 'em die, eh?) and how they actually admitted to letting tyrants conquer the weak and let world die in The Last Outpost, and sounding as if they were bragging about it, I'd call Starfleet criminals, no different than the Timelords in Doctor Who, and even they started to see how the Doctor was doing.

So, I'd probably be similar to the Doctor in the Trek Universe.....and since my own comic is a crossover with Doctor Who.....I can't help but imagine Starfleet putting their equivalent to wanted posters on Federation worlds that says "Federation Enemy Number One" under Tom Baker's picture. That, along with a fleet of starfleet vessels pursuing a little blue box in space, akin to a police chase, with phasers and torps whooshing by.

 

[BillJ]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

...and how they actually admitted to letting tyrants conquer the weak and let world die in The Last Outpost, and sounding as if they were bragging about it...

I didn't see it as bragging, but being honest. Remember Picard's line from Farpoint, "If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for who we really are..."

 

[MacLeod]

Re: UFP protocol for sublight deep space explorers (contact/don't cont

The Timelords in DW, ,ost of the time seemed to operate a policy of plausable denability when it came to The Doctor. As was evident several times the timelords could stop him if they wished to. They even used him several times to further there own goals "Genesis of the Dalek's", springs to mind.

But the Doctor did call them on they attitude

In all my travelling throughout the universe, I have battled against evil, against power-mad conspirators. I should have stayed here. The oldest civilisation: decadent, degenerate, and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans, Cybermen - they're still in the nursery compared to us. Ten million years of absolute power. That's what it takes to be really corrupt.