TWOK questions

[Mr Silver]

For all we know, Regula 1 became the Genesis Planet. After all, the Genesis device was programmed to turn a dead planet into a living one, and Regula 1 was the only dead'ish planet anywhere near as far as we know. It sounds quite unlikely that the Genesis device could have converted something like the Mutara Nebula into the eventual planet, against its original programming, as the expert Marcuses seemed to agree that the device had no flexibility of programming ("couldn't cram another byte into it") and Khan had no reason to tamper with the programming anyway.

If warp drive was an absolute necessity for escaping the effects of the Genesis detonation, then Regula 1 would obviously have been well within the range of those effects, as the detonation happened aboard a ship that had traveled from Regula 1 to the detonation location at impulse...

Timo Saloniemi

This is one of those horrible plotholes that gets to me. The general consensus is that the Mutara nebula was converted into the Genesis planet, however there is no logical basis for this. Sure, we saw the Mutara nebula essentially dissipate with the detonation of the Genesis device, but it just doesn't add up. I'm inclined to go with Timo on this, unless of course another lifeless space object in the system was terraformed by the Genesis wave?

If Nicholas Meyer ever decides to do a Robert Wise esque director's cut to TWOK, I think they should clearly show what actually became the basis for the Genesis planet. Cutting the sequence of the Enterprise warping away from the system (lets face it, the Enterprise going to warp was enough to ensure us that our heroes escaped the detonation) and then replacing it with a newer CGI sequence of Genesis wave eventually impacting with a planet or planetoid would be a cool addition.

As for reasons as to why the Mutara nebula cannot be the Genesis planet....

1) Its a gaseous space body with very little mineral content, not enough to form the raw materials of a planet.
2) Its size is inconsistent with the Genesis planet, if the nebula was indeed the Genesis planet, then why is it not as big as the nebula?
3) The Genesis planet is in orbit with a star, some might argue that the star was part of the Genesis matrix, but this is inconsistent with Trek in general...if they could make artificial stars, why would they ever need to bother with energy? Just create a small artificial star within a warp engine and you'd have infinite warp drive, no dilithium needed.

 

[Timo]

To be sure,

1) Genesis is all about transforming, transmuting, transmogrifying. A cloud of hydrogen might well become a lump of metals of equal overall mass when hit by the wave.
2) there might well be just enough mass in the wide nebula to form the small planet; it just wouldn't converge into a planet the usual way, with gravity and lots and lots of collisions, but would be forced together by the transformational effects of the Genesis wave.
3) the emergence of the star is only half the equation; somewhere within impulse range, the original Regula star must have disappeared so that only one light source remains. The more logical alternative is to assume that it's one and the same star all along. If the Genesis effect doesn't propagate through stark vacuum, it would probably leave the star largely unaffected because the Mutara nebula as per dialogue seems to be to one side of the star system, not encompassing all of it...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Harvey]

Chekov was first officer of the Reliant, yet he wasn't wearing command white either.

I think that this is because Chekov didn't become first officer of the Reliant until post-production. Supposedly Walter Koenig campaigned for that and they added "First Officer Pavel Chekov reporting" to the log entry at the beginning of the film.

That lines up with the rough cut of the film I recently saw. In that version, a temporary version of the voice-over has been included.

The log opens with, "Starship log, stardate 8130.4. This report, classified, most secret. Log entry by Commander Pavel Chekov, duty officer." There's no mention of Chekov being a First Officer or an Executive Officer or anything like that.

 

[Timo]

Of course, there's precedent to the XO wearing Sciences colors...

In fact, I don't think there's an instance in TOS, TAS or the TOS movies where the XO would wear the command colors. The only time the CO and the XO share colors is "Charlie X", where the Antares top officers both apparently don the Engineering shirts from "Where No Man", rather than the Command ones.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MLJames]

In the only two instances of CO and XO wearing command colors on starships in the TOS era (Decker and Spock), both XO's had been COs with captain's rank in their previous posting. Timo's right; we've never seen an XO who came to the position through the normal chain of events in command livery.

 

[Timo]

...Although now I must point out that the apparent XO Spock did wear command gold in "Where No Man" along with Kirk, without having had previous CO experience.

Also, it's uncertain if Spock really was Kirk's XO in the TOS movies beyond TMP. He just happened to be the ship's deposed Captain and useful hangaround in ST2, a corpse in ST3, a fellow rogue in ST4, and an onboard diplomat in ST6.

True, he seems to specifically be leaving the ship's XO position to Valeris in ST6 (although he may already have relinquished it when the movie opens), so perhaps he really was the XO at least in ST5? That'd be the one case of the XO and the CO sharing command colors in a situation that was approved by Starfleet Command at their leisure rather than hastily arranged under exceptional circumstances.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Pauln6]

Will Decker wore the command white. Even though he had been a captain, his uniform was hastily altered to show the correct rank so they could have changed his department colours to science. Curiously, the promo shots show Decker in a yellow uniform with a red insignia, which would indicate that he was actually an engineer, not a scientist, supported by the fact that he worked extensively on the refit himself.

Overall, they never anticipated high definition tv so they didn't really worry about the details all that much.

 

[Mr Silver]

Also, it's uncertain if Spock really was Kirk's XO in the TOS movies beyond TMP. He just happened to be the ship's deposed Captain and useful hangaround in ST2, a corpse in ST3, a fellow rogue in ST4, and an onboard diplomat in ST6.

He wasn't Kirk's XO in TMP, that was given to Decker as a conselation prize for being temporarily reduced in grade to commander.

In TWOK, Spock is actually the captain of the Enterprise and is content to just act as "useful hangaround" like you said and a teacher. When Kirk takes command, Spock becomes the science officer and if anything, I don't really think there was an XO, since it was a training mission, it seemed as if Saavik was given the XO responsibilities as part of her command training.

Obviously in TSFS, there is no first officer, it seems Chekov stands in for Spock, however as he takes over as science officer and is also present for the destruct codes.

In TVH, since none of the official Starfleet rules apply, there is no XO, rather the crew just works in their traditional positions with Kirk in command.

In TFF, it would seem that Spock is acting as the XO, despite being a captain.

In TUC, it doesn't appear as if Spock is even on active duty, its made out that he's merely along in a diplomatic capacity to support the Klingon peace talks. However, from a classic 'logical vulcan' standpoint, i'd imagine Spock acted as science officer as he was probably the best qualified person onboard and maybe he was reinstated to active duty for the duration of the mission.

Spock is a proven commander, should the need arise, however he is content to serve as an officer and focus on his strengths. We know that Spock is regarded as the best first officer in the fleet (at least in TOS) and that he is one of the best science officers around, he holds one of, if not the highest computer expert qualifications and is quickly able to determine solutions to problems. It stands to reason that Kirk chose him as first officer because of his knowledge with the Enterprise (Spock served for several years with Pike), his logical nature (that serves to give Kirk another perspective) and like I said earlier, he's a capable commander.

Another piece of evidence that Spock isn't actively on the Enterprise crew in TUC is when he announces that he's assuming command of the Enterprise. If Spock was the XO, he would be in command by default. Its similar to when Kirk (who is an instructor) in TWOK takes command. As the highest ranking officer (bar Scotty, who is quite happy to look after his engines), he is the most suited to the task of Command. Furthermore when Kirk is off duty, Chekov is sitting in the Captain's chair, despite Spock still being on bridge, of course we could argue that Spock is also off duty, but then again, theres a lot of evidence that points to Spock just being along for the mission.

 

[DonIago]

Though non-canon, the TSFS novelization firmly establishes that Regulus was not caught up in the genesis wave. Saavik and David go down to the planetoid in a bit of foreshadowing, while Chapel and Carol go to the station so that Carol can formally identify the bodies.

The TWoK and TSFS novels rank among my favorites for the additional scenes and characterization.

 

[Pauln6]

The TWoK and TSFS novels rank among my favorites for the additional scenes and characterization.

I don't remember TSFS novel that much but I definitely remember TWOK. I was blown away by the story. Fleshing out the scientists and Saavik and Peter's friendship definitely added more dimensions to the story. I was hugely disappointed that the recent comic adaption stuck religiously to what was seen on screen.

The line that was executed better in the movie was Spock's blunt and very funny, "I exaggerated,". The novel diluted its impact with unnecessary internal rationaisation.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Obviously in TSFS, there is no first officer, it seems Chekov stands in for Spock, however as he takes over as science officer and is also present for the destruct codes.

This makes sense, since Chekov often subbed for Spock at the science station in TOS. Doesn't he also identify himself as "acting science officer" during the self-destruct sequence?

Though non-canon, the TSFS novelization firmly establishes that Regulus was not caught up in the genesis wave. Saavik and David go down to the planetoid in a bit of foreshadowing, while Chapel and Carol go to the station so that Carol can formally identify the bodies.

The Enterprise crew also stops off there in issue #9 of DC's Star Trek comic (taking place shortly after STIII), and a memorial to David Marcus is set up in the Genesis Cave. It gave us some nice scenes that were glossed over in STIV.

 

[MLJames]

On page 262 of The Art Of Star Trek there are several shots of graphics done for TUC. One of them shows Spock's daily schedule, and it lists him as XO with his rank of captain (curiously it also shows a message from CDR M. Scott about an impulse reactor test, so it might well be taken with a grain of salt). The graphic never appears lit on screen, as the screen it would appear on in remains either unlit or unseen in the shots in Spock's quarters. It is, however, in the same style as the screen shown both times Kirk records log entries in his quarters. Since Spock's graphic is never seen it must be considered non-canon, but it does indicate the people working on the film considered him to be XO when they were filming.