Totally agree. I'm not a huge fan of the scooby-doo reveal but it makes no sense to cut his scenes. It would have been better if it was maybe a more low ranking assassin that scotty shot but hey ho. I'll stick with my DVD box set for now.
TUC: Overrated?
- Thread starter Simon Goldfarb
- Start date
Totally agree. I'm not a huge fan of the scooby-doo reveal but it makes no sense to cut his scenes. It would have been better if it was maybe a more low ranking assassin that scotty shot but hey ho. I'll stick with my DVD box set for now.
One possibility is that when the version including Colonel West was considered for release, a consensus developed that West/North constituted one too many parallels with actual late-1980s international politics; that is, it was too much to accommodate along with the more central Gorkon/Gorbachev (Klingon Empire/Soviet Union) parallels, and was jettisoned primarily for that reason.
If you were in the U.S. and old enough to be aware of national politics in 1991, you would likely have known who North was from the televised congressional hearings in the summer of 1987, and if West had appeared in the theatrical cut, the parallel (in his scene with the Federation president) would have been obvious: the rogue colonel acting in what he thought were his president's best interests, even if that president had (officially) said no.
If you were in the U.S. and old enough to be aware of national politics in 1991, you would likely have known who North was from the televised congressional hearings in the summer of 1987, and if West had appeared in the theatrical cut, the parallel (in his scene with the Federation president) would have been obvious: the rogue colonel acting in what he thought were his president's best interests, even if that president had (officially) said no.
I never made that connection! Cool! Thanks!
In the theatrical cut, we're left with the idea that the shooter was an unnamed Klingon assassin. Which still makes logical sense, since it was a conspiracy between certain Klingon officers and certain Starfleet officers. Starfleet officers assassinate the Klingon chancellor and a Klingon officer assassinates the Federation president. And, thus, we have the war that both sides apparently wanted.
Yes, the "Scooby Doo" reveal works too, but I think the ending works fine without it as well.
From an in-universe perspective, even if I were conspiring to kill the Federation President, I would not hand over the job to a sworn enemy. It sounds odd, but there are times were assassins have their own code of honor, and would want the Federation president killed on their terms, and not by a patsy who could mess it all up.
Since I never saw the movie without West's scenes, I enjoyed the film all the way to the end. Scooby-Doo reveal? Maybe, but it worked for me.
Yeah, you're right. It would be like Klingons conspiring to assassinate their own head of state and using Starfleet officers as the trigger men. That would never happen.
Well, you have two different cultural presentations there. A Klingon killing another Klingon but concealing their face is dishonorable.
From a Klingon point of view, having a sworn enemy kill the head of state is the least dishonorable options of their options. I mean, that PR statement writes itself. "Those humans have no honor!"
From a Federation point of view, there is a severe lack of trust of the Klingons being able to pull off the subtle work of assassination. Again, for spy work, you would rather it be done in house.
The other factor is that having West identified shows the situation as a bigger picture in that it isn't just the Klingons being the bad guys and that Starfleet had some dirty hands too..... And not just with low ranking officers.
Well to the people at the peace conference anyways. To them, if it was just a Klingon trying to kill the president and was stopped by Kirk & crew, then that would just lean more towards going to war than making peace.
Well to the people at the peace conference anyways. To them, if it was just a Klingon trying to kill the president and was stopped by Kirk & crew, then that would just lean more towards going to war than making peace.
Trek Trivia: Shatner played Ollie North in the opening skit of his Dec. 1986 SNL appearance (better known for the infamous "Get a Life" skit).
That would have been a good twist
I like it!
And it would've given Worf something else to do besides get his ass kicked by Chang.
For those who aren't familiar with the cut scenes
After Kirk and McCoy are sentenced to the penal (hee hee) colony Admiral Cartwright is with the Federation President and they call it a damn show trial. With Cartwright is a guy called Colonel West which is Rene howeverthehellhislastname is spelled and maybe the Romulan Ambassador.
West breaks out a bunch of charts and says they can send in Federation Navy SEALS (or whatever they use) to break Kirk and McCoy out. The Fed President (Who I still find amusing it's the dad from that 70's show and Boddicker from Robocop) says what if this leads to war to which West gives this cheesy reply "In that case we would clean their chronometers". But the pres nixes it.
After Scotty kills the Klingon and he's lying on the floor I think Worf says "This is not Klingon blood" about the red blood running from the back of his head and in "Scooby Doo" fashion they pull off the mask to reveal Colonel West.
Don't know if I like it better with or without that sequence.
After Kirk and McCoy are sentenced to the penal (hee hee) colony Admiral Cartwright is with the Federation President and they call it a damn show trial. With Cartwright is a guy called Colonel West which is Rene howeverthehellhislastname is spelled and maybe the Romulan Ambassador.
West breaks out a bunch of charts and says they can send in Federation Navy SEALS (or whatever they use) to break Kirk and McCoy out. The Fed President (Who I still find amusing it's the dad from that 70's show and Boddicker from Robocop) says what if this leads to war to which West gives this cheesy reply "In that case we would clean their chronometers". But the pres nixes it.
After Scotty kills the Klingon and he's lying on the floor I think Worf says "This is not Klingon blood" about the red blood running from the back of his head and in "Scooby Doo" fashion they pull off the mask to reveal Colonel West.
Don't know if I like it better with or without that sequence.
The theatrical is better.
Col. West has no business looking like a 20th Century military man with a cheesy flip top notepad. Surely, they'd have used computer monitors. It added nothing to the movie except a cheesy two scenes, which the movie did not need. It was pointless padding.
Col. West has no business looking like a 20th Century military man with a cheesy flip top notepad. Surely, they'd have used computer monitors. It added nothing to the movie except a cheesy two scenes, which the movie did not need. It was pointless padding.
I like it with these scenes in.
It shows that the conspirators had come up with a backup plan to start the war anyway. The "Klingon blood" clue that caused Scotty to pull the mask off justifies to me the Pepto Pink blood blobs and spatters.
West's use of facial appliances instead of a quickie plastic surgery was a way for him to make a fast appearance after the assassination. Plausible deniability and all that. It just didn't work out the way it was planned.
Cartwright and West had no reason to expect that Kirk and company would show up.
Just like Kirk's surrender to the Klingons, his arrival in the nick of time to save the POTUFOP (President of the United Federation of Planets) was something the conspirators wouldn't have anticipated.
Hubris. It's a funny word, and one that often comes around to bite you on the ass.
I liked it too. The board with the pointer was a glaring thing, but how do we know it wasn't a 'tradition' in the presidents office to conduct business like that? Straw grabblng maybe and the reveal can only be described as a 'scooby doo' moment (there's no other way of describing it is there?)' but I sweeps you up in the moment and is damn entertaining, so it stays in for me.
I'm going to call it a "Mission Impossible" moment from now on.
I like it too, and the level of detail that the conspirators were working to prevent peace always struck me as a very backwards, illogical thing to do. This is how I felt even as an 11 year old watching it for the first time.
I'll keep my scenes and Klingon mask
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