Trill History In Unjoined (Spoilers)

[Jbarney]

I must say I find the historical link between the alien parasites and the Trill to be a connection that didn't have to be made. Don't get me wrong I have found the writing and story telling in Unjoined to be really good. The characterizations of Bashir and Ezri are right on and I love the political situation unfolding on Trill.

Just thinking about the scope of trek history and all of the stories that could be told, I am just not sure the link between the parasites/Kurl/Trill needed to happen. While I understand the need to interconnect different threads of trek lore when possible.... while reading the story I just keep thinking that a seperate origin of the symbionts and the parasites would be much more satisfying.

Of course I haven't finished reading the story yet, but I just thought I would post my thoughts. The political turmoil on Trill is well developed.... but creatively I just don't think the coupling of the parasites/symbionts needed to happen. There still could have been a historical hatred without this particular link.

 

[Sci]

I must say I find the historical link between the alien parasites and the Trill to be a connection that didn't have to be made. Don't get me wrong I have found the writing and story telling in Unjoined to be really good. The characterizations of Bashir and Ezri are right on and I love the political situation unfolding on Trill.

Just thinking about the scope of trek history and all of the stories that could be told, I am just not sure the link between the parasites/Kurl/Trill needed to happen. While I understand the need to interconnect different threads of trek lore when possible.... while reading the story I just keep thinking that a seperate origin of the symbionts and the parasites would be much more satisfying.

Of course I haven't finished reading the story yet, but I just thought I would post my thoughts. The political turmoil on Trill is well developed.... but creatively I just don't think the coupling of the parasites/symbionts needed to happen. There still could have been a historical hatred without this particular link.

I disagree. I think that the link needed to be made to the Parasites to drive home an important point:

The chickens come home to roost. The sins of the past will continue to haunt us until we acknowledge them and take responsibility for them.

Without the impetus provided by the Parasites, that message is lost.

 

[Jbarney]

I understand your point, and accept their use to tell this story.

I also think back to their introduction during TNG and just feel their origin could have (should have) been entirely different than what was developed in Unjoined. I am writing this from the perspective of loving "Conspiracy" and disappointed the producers/writers never brought them back on TNG.

Yes, to make the point developed for Unjoined the parasites and the symbionts needed a common ancestory. I just feel that what was introduced in "Conspiracy" was much more alien in origin. For me, Mangels and Martin could have simply developed a historically rogue group of symbionts and the story could have been the same. It would not have had the same depth and background as it would not have been making connections with something on screen, but it could have been done.

I just find the connection they have established here to be mildly disappointing. Their motivations were vengence against the Trill. In "In Conspiracy" they came across as morbid insects/disgusting creatures driven to use humaniod bodies for their own reproduction and nothing else. Explaining their existance and connecting their motivations as wanting to get rid of the Trill symbionts seems less evil or threatening. Yes they were able to kill anything or anyone to get even with the Trill Symbionts but they just seem as much less of a threat to everyone else now.

Please don't take this as criticism that I am not enjoying the story. I was up at 3:00 in the morning reading it.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I Explaining their existance and connecting their motivations as wanting to get rid of the Trill symbionts seems less evil or threatening.

Unless you're a Trill

 

[Sci]

I definitely come at it from another angle: I don't enjoy "Conspiracy" at all, because I find that the Parasites behave so irrationally and, indeed, out and out stupidly that I find it hard to believe they ever managed to infiltrate Starfleet Headquarters.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I definitely come at it from another angle: I don't enjoy "Conspiracy" at all, because I find that the Parasites behave so irrationally and, indeed, out and out stupidly that I find it hard to believe they ever managed to infiltrate Starfleet Headquarters.

Indeed. They were portrayed as simple evil body-snatching creatures who we were supposed to believe were also pulling off a great conspiracy and outwiting the entire Federation. Also, what was the motivation? In the DS9 relaunch, they had more depth, if rolled up into one big grudge, and sensibly smaller targets with a motivation for hitting/infesting them.

 

[Jbarney]

Just finished it. Liked the social revolution that gripped the planet. Interesting they chose to end the Bashir/Dax relationship. Good story, despite my complaints.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Just finished it. Liked the social revolution that gripped the planet. Interesting they chose to end the Bashir/Dax relationship. Good story, despite my complaints.

Yes...it is MOST interesting indeed....

BTW, I'd created a thread on this very subject some time back. Care to check it out, and make a comment?

Here's a link:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=97711

 

[Christopher]

I must say I find the historical link between the alien parasites and the Trill to be a connection that didn't have to be made.

I don't understand when people complain that a given story didn't "have to" be told a certain way. Of course it didn't "have to." Stories are entertainment. Strictly speaking, they don't "have to" be told at all. We could all just live out our lives eating and sleeping and working and never using our imaginations.

Of course, I firmly believe that humans have to use their imaginations in order to have healthy and successful lives, but the essence of imagination is freedom of choice. Stories aren't determined by compulsion, but by inspiration or simply curiosity. No, there didn't "have to" be a link between the Trill and the parasites, but the people who came up with the story wondered what would happen if there were, and offered a possible answer to that question. They could've told a different story, but they chose to tell this one. "Have to" is a phrase that has no meaning in this context.

 

[ToddCam]

I don't think you can put it on M&M. The connection between the parasites and the symbionts was established waaaaay back in "Sins of the Mother" from The Lives of Dax. (2001?) That story was written by S.D. Perry, I think, and Marco was the editor. Marco was the common thread there.

 

[Thrawn]

I must say I find the historical link between the alien parasites and the Trill to be a connection that didn't have to be made.

I don't understand when people complain that a given story didn't "have to" be told a certain way. Of course it didn't "have to." Stories are entertainment. Strictly speaking, they don't "have to" be told at all. We could all just live out our lives eating and sleeping and working and never using our imaginations.

Of course, I firmly believe that humans have to use their imaginations in order to have healthy and successful lives, but the essence of imagination is freedom of choice. Stories aren't determined by compulsion, but by inspiration or simply curiosity. No, there didn't "have to" be a link between the Trill and the parasites, but the people who came up with the story wondered what would happen if there were, and offered a possible answer to that question. They could've told a different story, but they chose to tell this one. "Have to" is a phrase that has no meaning in this context.

Yeah, no kidding. I end up in this argument all the goddamn time.

 

[Jbarney]

I must say I find the historical link between the alien parasites and the Trill to be a connection that didn't have to be made.

I don't understand when people complain that a given story didn't "have to" be told a certain way. Of course it didn't "have to." Stories are entertainment. Strictly speaking, they don't "have to" be told at all. We could all just live out our lives eating and sleeping and working and never using our imaginations.

Of course, I firmly believe that humans have to use their imaginations in order to have healthy and successful lives, but the essence of imagination is freedom of choice. Stories aren't determined by compulsion, but by inspiration or simply curiosity. No, there didn't "have to" be a link between the Trill and the parasites, but the people who came up with the story wondered what would happen if there were, and offered a possible answer to that question. They could've told a different story, but they chose to tell this one. "Have to" is a phrase that has no meaning in this context.

Christopher, its a saying. I think its pretty clear I was expressing my opinion and lack of support for a choice that was made to connect two totally seperate ideas.

At some point in the creative process somebody made the decision to greenlight the story and background between the parasites and the Trill. No they didn't have to do it.... but they did. It was a connection that, if I were the one making the creative choices, would have been low on the list of stories to tell. I would have been much more satisfied with a story that didn't link the two. So, as you have pointed out, using my imagination, I can come up with a number of different ways the story of the political unrest on Trill coming to a head could have developed.

Exploring those choices and realizing they present a more satisfactory option than what was presented in Unjoined provides the opportunity to express that.....It didn't have to be told that way.

I did use my imagination and well....expressed the feelings I had about the story.

 

[Thrawn]

^ I think you missed the point. He wasn't calling you unimaginative, he was commenting on the nature of imagination of the writer/editor(s) in the first place.

 

[Arpy]

For what it's worth, I agree with Jbarney. The story took small universe syndrome to a whole 'nother level. There are all of two such creatures in the entire Star Trek universe: did we really have to tie them together? Note: I am aware we didn't "have" to do anything, or that I was a part of it, or that they were literally "tied" together.

The parasites in "Conspiracy" were almost arch in their villainy. So entirely different from the vengeance seekers in "Unjoined". I love a good Frankenstein story as much as the next man, and I mean in the nBSG sense, although a good grotesque monster is fun too, but here I thought it robbed these mysterious alien baddies of their "teeth". And made them a lot less alien in the process.

Plus, the two were so little alike physically. You might as well have engineered humans from the material of that snow monster on Delta Vega - you could maybe, but...it just added more fuel to the fire.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Plus, the two were so little alike physically. You might as well have engineered humans from the material of that snow monster on Delta Vega - you could maybe, but...it just added more fuel to the fire.

Well, the Neyel and humans come to mind

I thought the parasites and symbionts did look somewhat alike. I could see the resemblance in their underneath the pincers and claws.

 

[Christopher]

Christopher, its a saying. I think its pretty clear I was expressing my opinion and lack of support for a choice that was made to connect two totally seperate ideas.

Maybe, but it's a bad saying, because it doesn't have any meaning. Saying "I disagree with their choice to do that" is fine. It's straightforward, it's fair, it's honest. But saying "They didn't have to do that" is just meaningless, because it implies there's something bad about doing something by choice rather than compulsion. And it's somewhat egotistical, because it implicitly equates one's own personal preferences with necessity or obligation. Saying "They didn't have to do it the way I dislike" is implicitly saying "They should have done it the way I like better," and that's obnoxious as hell.

For what it's worth, I agree with your basic perspective. I wouldn't have chosen to link the "Conspiracy" parasites with the Trill, because it's small-universe syndrome. But I respect the right of different creators to make different creative choices, and I don't automatically reject the worth of a story just because it isn't done the way I would've done it. Of course they didn't have to do it that way, and I wouldn't have done it that way, but they chose to do it that way and they handled it well. So saying "They didn't have to do that" is meaningless. It doesn't constitute an actual criticism. The quality of a story has nothing to do with how necessary it was, only with how well a concept is handled -- even if it's a concept that you wouldn't have chosen to pursue.

 

[Jbarney]

Christopher, its a saying. I think its pretty clear I was expressing my opinion and lack of support for a choice that was made to connect two totally seperate ideas.

Maybe, but it's a bad saying, because it doesn't have any meaning. Saying "I disagree with their choice to do that" is fine. It's straightforward, it's fair, it's honest. But saying "They didn't have to do that" is just meaningless, because it implies there's something bad about doing something by choice rather than compulsion. And it's somewhat egotistical, because it implicitly equates one's own personal preferences with necessity or obligation. Saying "They didn't have to do it the way I dislike" is implicitly saying "They should have done it the way I like better," and that's obnoxious as hell.

You are welcome to your opinion, sir.

For what it's worth, I agree with your basic perspective. I wouldn't have chosen to link the "Conspiracy" parasites with the Trill, because it's small-universe syndrome. But I respect the right of different creators to make different creative choices, and I don't automatically reject the worth of a story just because it isn't done the way I would've done it. Of course they didn't have to do it that way, and I wouldn't have done it that way, but they chose to do it that way and they handled it well. So saying "They didn't have to do that" is meaningless. It doesn't constitute an actual criticism. The quality of a story has nothing to do with how necessary it was, only with how well a concept is handled -- even if it's a concept that you wouldn't have chosen to pursue.

As I stated before, I very much enjoyed the story despite my lack of support for the creative choice made to couple the Trill and the parasites with a common background.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^FWIW, I'm probably one of the few who kinda like Small-Universe moments--

But only in moderation. I can eye-roll with the best of them at "oh, how convenient" instances...

But if done well, these S-U revelations can serve as DANG good "Oh my GOSH!" moments.

I guess in the end, it all just depends on how well it's handled....

 

[JD]

I never thought I'd type these words in my life, but I agree with Rush here. I also like it when things like the parasite-Trill connection, when it is done well (which I thought this was) and when it is done in moderation. IMO some of my favorite HOLY SHIT!! moments have come from these kinds of connections.

 

[Thrawn]

I still love PAD's connection of the Borg and the Planet Killer from Vendetta, though I think Destiny's new Borg origin might kill that.