Trek's catsuit problem with female actresses

[Nombrecomun]

As opposed to catsuits worn by male actresses?

Since "actress" is considered by most to be a relic of an older, more sexist time, you could try:

Trek's catsuit problem with female actors​

While we're at it, why are we saying "female"? The ones who use that term most often say "female" as if they're discussing objects, not people. Try:

Trek's catsuit problem with women actors​

So far as that goes, why do we need to specify sex at all? Again, it's not as if there's high incidence of men in catsuits in Trek (or anywhere else). How about:

Trek's catsuit problem with actors​

And, well, yeah -- they're on television, so of course they're actors, right? Thus:

Trek's catsuit problem​

Now, then...is this the real topic?

Just wondering.

This whole thing about use of words is super messy. There are social, age, political, cultural, educational, etc....aspects to it. Some people are intentional about using them. Some are not. Some people might be using certain language as putdowns. Others are not.

Why do we have the word 'actress' when we don't have 'pilotess'? I suppose there weren't any females who flew planes back then for the word to exist since it was a very male dominated career up until quite recently. But we have 'actress' because females(girls and women) have been acting in some form for at least a century in the cinematic world along with their male counterparts. Was it used to belittle females from its inception? Was it created to do so and to somehow separate males from females in that profession? I don't know.

I do know the word is part of our language and I totally get how some folks want to erase the word because one word should suffice. Like 'pilot' or 'electrician'. I also understand the 'actress' is part of our vocabulary and people use it without meaning any offense.

This makes me wonder how many feminized(?) career words are in the English language. I can only think of actress.

Waaaaay off topic with this but interesting to discuss.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Regarding surnames derived from jobs, Baxter and Brewster are the female form of Baker and Brewer, so I've heard.

With some jobs, it doesn't matter. If you want someone to paint your house, you don't want a type of person in particular, just a job well done.

If you were having tryouts in the past, and you wanted a woman to play a woman/women, you could say actress instead of actor.

 

[Qonundrum]

Every female character who was in a catsuit looked far better when actually put in a regular uniform. Until we get an equal number of male characters in just a codpiece and harness I hope that the female catsuit is a trope that has finally died a death.

As a bi guy somewhere in that Kinsey range, I find that notion to be as welcome as equally valuable in showing how inane such sexploitation truly is. It's as over the top as it is shallow. The trope was a ridiculous one back in the 90s and, ironically, it's always been a turn-off...

Seven almost has a reason for it (due to the nature of the Borg implants as said by the EMH; something to that effect, as I recall?). But the outfit doesn't "do anything for me", as the nomenclature goes.

T'Pol certainly didn't have a reason.

Was Troi given a reason, or does the psychology division of medical have a genuine reason for either flowing gowns easy to trip on or the goofy purple catsuits?

Most poignantly: Ishara Yar certainly had no reason to switch outfits since almost every guest on NCC-1701-D-Taxicab there doesn't, and she looked far better in the rebel outfit along with her hunky associate who's wearing the same style of tailored outfit - in case nobody else in the audience was aware that the dynamic duo there were on the same side. Also, the second they leave base, such branding makes it easier to recognize enemy factions, I'd guess... maybe Ishara was trying to look like the other faction? Naah, the enemy group is equally clad in their own uniformed style, as to be expected. (Cringe outfits and some massive plot holes aside, I still agree with the B+ rating. It's more than the... sum of... its parts... <-- in lieu of no ideal facepalm emoticon as that one I realized too late while typing it out... )

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Was trying to find just clip of her in the rebel outfit and the one where the costumier was inspired by Peri Brown circa 1984, but I love RA's style of humor too much and the clips they chose show it all (pun NOT intended.)

 

[Qonundrum]

Oh look, sporty Depends! The only thing missing are zebra and/or leopard patterns!

 

[Uhura's Song]

Part of Sci-fi has always been sex appeal.

Seeing it through the lens of female only is somewhat distorted. I mean, anyone care to count the number of times Kirk lost his shirt? Or delve into why Chekov was intoduced?

I am not disagreeing with the premise. I think it lands more when you are talking about female Star Fleet officers. I give TOS a pass since it was 1967. Troi is the most egregious example. The did fix it in Season 7.

Enterprise with T'Pol and the decontamination chamber rubbing gel on half-naked crew members all the time was terribly blatant. Trip was usually in there, too. But the number of low angle shots of Jolene curled up/bent over was excessive. Yes, I know it got fixed eventually.

But you have to realize that Trek is still a TV show and sex sells. For all it's flaws, DISCO has been better in this regard. SNM is in Federation standard, though Michelle is in catsuits. Though it fits the character. And Tilly is the first bridge main character on the heavy side since the TOS/TNG casts got older.

LD & Pro are good in this regard. SNW is better as well. Rebecca is who she is, but she isn't in a skirt as much, and the legs aren't bare.

 

[fireproof78]

Was trying to find just clip of her in the rebel outfit and the one where the costumier was inspired by Peri Brown circa 1984, but I love RA's style of humor too much and the clips they chose show it all (pun NOT intended.)

Yeah, those outfits definitely call out "I'm from the 80s."

 

[M'Sharak]

This whole thing about use of words is super messy. There are social, age, political, cultural, educational, etc....aspects to it. Some people are intentional about using them. Some are not. Some people might be using certain language as putdowns. Others are not.

Why do we have the word 'actress' when we don't have 'pilotess'? I suppose there weren't any females who flew planes back then for the word to exist since it was a very male dominated career up until quite recently.

See: aviatrix

Bessie Coleman, America’s First Black Aviatrix (Woman Pilot) - Sarah Byrn Rickman

But we have 'actress' because females(girls and women) have been acting in some form for at least a century in the cinematic world along with their male counterparts. Was it used to belittle females from its inception? Was it created to do so and to somehow separate males from females in that profession? I don't know.

To create a separate category, perhaps, but without making it quite equal to the men's.

I do know the word is part of our language and I totally get how some folks want to erase the word because one word should suffice. Like 'pilot' or 'electrician'. I also understand the 'actress' is part of our vocabulary and people use it without meaning any offense.

This makes me wonder how many feminized(?) career words are in the English language. I can only think of actress.

Seamstress
Governess
Stewardess
Hostess
Meter Maid

There are (or have been) many more, but you get the idea.

-trix Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com
-ess Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com

 

[Magic Maik]

Oh look, sporty Depends! The only thing missing are zebra and/or leopard patterns!

Have some Tiger Man!
He doesn't mind getting down and dirty in the ring too.

 

[Nombrecomun]

Mindfulness has been "packaged" for some time now.

Seamstress
Governess
Stewardess
Hostess
Meter Maid

There are (or have been) many more, but you get the idea.

Whoa!!!! Thanks. Totally blanked this morning. I suppose I didn't even think of these words because they're hardly words used today. Or perhaps better said, I don't use those words. I remember 'stewardess' on planes in the 70's but now it's 'flight attendant'. I don't think there was any backlash to that.

I think I still hear 'hostess' but that would be at fancy restaurants.....which I don't go to. LOL!!!!

 

[Magic Maik]

Whoa!!!! Thanks. Totally blanked this morning. I suppose I didn't even think of these words because they're hardly words used today. Or perhaps better said, I don't use those words. I remember 'stewardess' on planes in the 70's but now it's 'flight attendant'. I don't think there was any backlash to that.

I think I still hear 'hostess' but that would be at fancy restaurants.....which I don't go to. LOL!!!!

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[Orphalesion]

Funny thing, they made positive progress, peaking with late TNG, DS9 and early Voyager. Consider:
TNG, post CoC: Crusher wears uniform with coat, Troi wears uniform, other female personnel wear uniform.
DS9: Kira wears Bajoran uniform. Dax wears Starfleet uniform.
VOY: Janeway wears uniform. Torres wears uniform. Kes wears simple, flattering civilian outfits.

For five years, they had it right. Then, we reverse course and catsuits are back.

However:
TNG: The female uniform was apparently a jumpsuit that was much less comfortable than the uniform the male stars got to wear and was still designed to show off (and enhance) the physique of Sirtis. McFadden and female guest stars (iirc both the actresses of Ro and Shelby complained how uncomfortable it was to wear)
DS9:The female uniform in DS9 and VOY does look more professional and similar to the male one, but Kira got a catsuit "variant" with built-in high heels in Season 4
VOY: Ins season 3 they started putting Kess into tight catsuits with high-heels as well, even more so after she grew her hair out.

So even in those five years they didn't quite have it right.

I like the skant uniform, albeit with proper leggings and boots. If done right, it has a futuristic-take on a medieval tunic.

I agree. If they had paired the early TNG "skant" with some pants/leggings and regular
shoes instead of those go-go boots that would have made the perfect outfit for Troi and for crewmembers of all sexes/genders.
Just to think about it, a pair of black pants/leggings could have saved us from 5 1/2 seasons of Troi being reduced to a "decoration" to "brighten up the bridge"

Best proof of that is the skirt/skant variant uniform on SNW. It looks perfectly acceptable as a uniform because it's paired with pants/leggings.

 

[urbandefault]

I'm old enough to remember when Star Trek was just good clean fun.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Oh look, sporty Depends! The only thing missing are zebra and/or leopard patterns!

I've had to wear Depends (or actually, the generic equivalent). Most recently when I was preparing for and recovering from my prostate biopsy (the former to avoid soiling my boxers with aftereffects from the required enema; the latter to avoid bleeding on my boxers) Not fun. Not especially comfortable. Not especially convenient. And after about the third visit to the convenience on a single pair, they don't stay up very well.

That said (and assuming nobody else has brought it up) Roddenberry did have a libido almost the size of Trump's.

 

[Nombrecomun]

You know, I'm rewatching Babylon 5 for the upteenth time and they didn't have any of these catsuit issues. So it certainly seems to point out to Trek in particular. If anything, quite the contrary with Delenn wearing really loose robes like Inara on Firefly. And Ivanova had a normal uniform like her male counterparts.

Does anyone recall other scifi of that time having this type of dress for women on their shows?

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

You know, I'm rewatching Babylon 5 for the upteenth time and they didn't have any of these catsuit issues. So it certainly seems to point out to Trek in particular.

I don't think JMS had quite GR's overactive privates.

 

[1001001]

There are posts in this forum that talk about episodes from 20 years ago. Is it then crazy to talk about the behind-the-scenes decisions that happened in those episodes from 20 years ago, especially when there's a NEW story from an actress discussing her experience and the mindset of those in charge?

Did I say it was “crazy”? Can you show me where I used that word?

No.

It’s not crazy, just not a current (or even recent) problem.

 

[Citiprime]

Does anyone recall other scifi of that time having this type of dress for women on their shows?

The only one that comes to mind is I remember some of the “V” miniseries/TV show of the 80s had Jane Badler in a catsuit at one point I believe.

• Lexx - Zev was usually dressed in a costume that was either a short skirt or sort of a loin cloth. Although, sex and the character being a partially brainwashed sex slave is a significant part of the plot.
• Space: Above and Beyond - The show actually indicates that by the 2060s the USMC has standardized their uniforms. Instead of the skirts of the present day USMC formal dress, female aviators are actually dressed in the male Marine Corps dress uniforms (i.e., wearing pants and coat) at one point.
• Farscape - There’s costumes that don’t look comfortable for women, but a lot of the costumes for both male and female characters don’t look comfortable at all.

 

[Magic Maik]

There was a BBC comedy called 'Hyperdrive' in the 2000's I think.

They had a wide variety of costumes.

 

[NCC-73515]

There was a male 7 of 9 in a silver catsuit at a con a while ago, and he looked great - even the costume contest hosts said oh wow
I read that in early TNG, male uniforms were padded to give them a more muscular look.
T'Pol was particularly odd because all other Vulcans wore gowns
The most revealing male costumes were on TMP though
Oh btw, the PRO uniforms are catsuits too

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Of course, there's always the opposite extreme: a bunny suit. (And yes, I've worn one of those, too. I wanted a very smooth coat of paint on a bunch of doors, and decided to "take 'em out and shoot 'em" [with an airless spray gun], and I profoundly wanted to avoid getting hurt, so I was wearing a Tyvek bunny suit, goggles, a respirator, and very heavy rubber gloves. The doors turned out quite well.)