• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Transition and explanation of SNW into TOS technology

To me there is, what is shown & what is said has major contradictions IMO.
Maybe this little quickie I whipped together will help.

Do you see how the shape of the green section was different, even before they started adding the 2017+ material?

STCanon-VisualAid1.png


When they say that Discovery is a prequel of TOS or that Picard continues TNG or that whatever other thing is also "Prime", this is what they mean. Even before Discovery appeared, the universe from which it sprung was already different than what it had been before.

The producers, then, are not contradicting themselves when they put something on the screen that contradicts TOS or the other Original Universe works while calling it a prequel/continuation.
 
Today's idea is to notice when someone qualifies their remarks.

The details are great for filling out the background, but it's not the reason the show exists and remains popular after 60 years.

You are replying to and quoted me saying "Part of the reason Star Trek became such a cultural staple is because it was largely able to withstand scrutiny, rewarding those who paid attention to the intricate details."

The first two words of that quote nullify your response. I didn't say it was the reason.

The same thing happens here:

Are you joking? We've been picking Trek apart since the Sixties. One guy, Phil Farrand, made quite a career out of it.

That's ostensibly responding to "Star Trek provided more {consistency} than most any other science fiction setting for decades" . . . though I fail to see how it does so meaningfully. Just as an example, if I point out a set of paupers and note that one is much richer than the others, it hardly makes sense to feign shock that I'd call a pauper rich . . . because I didn't.

That said, I would argue that Star Trek through 2005 wasn't really a pauper, and is much more consistent than you or Farrand would tend to give it credit for, especially considering the forty years of production and varying mindsets involved. And, as I said, that's part of why it retained popularity.

You can't decry YATIs unless they stand out to begin with . . . though so many of what folks consider YATIs really aren't.

Believability and consistency aren't the same thing in fiction. Gene's rule was never about the minutiae.

On the contrary, consistent (if minimal) use of sci-fi lingo was specifically noted in the TOS writer's guide as something that could "encourage believability", since a "scattergun confusion of meaningless phrases only detracts from believability." For TNG's writer's guide (early on), technological consistency concepts begat, for example, this phrase: "story believability demands that our twenty-fifth-century technology be at least as capable as our twentieth-century technology".

Roddenberry's memo nuking an early version of Star Trek V spends a paragraph on its "glaring science flaws" including the speed of the Enterprise and the extent of UFP exploration before referencing character-related writing failings, ending with the admonition to "do something with the ingredient that is the hallmark of Star Trek.....believability." I always took that to apply to all the areas under nuclear attack.

I also seem to recall, but am currently out of time to locate, memos about maintaining good continuity and tech consistency because Star Trek fans had higher expectations (or were generally brighter, a conceit for both fans and the maker of that which they're a fan of) than was typical.

Yes, character motivation and such was certainly at the core of believability, for Roddenberry, but he was well aware of the other side of it, and so yes, his insistence on believability did include it. It wasn't primary, but then I never suggested it was.
 
Overall? I’d rather Trek today take me to new places than where I have already been.

SNW isn’t bad TV, it is just very much been there, done that, read the novels, bought the underwear.
 
The film franchise, at that point, was filing Roddenberry’s notes in the trash can.

Not sure how that's relevant to the point that was being made, but, that said, it is worth noting that the film was changed, apparently in keeping with Roddenberry's critiques of the story as it then existed.
 
Not sure how that's relevant to the point that was being made, but, that said, it is worth noting that the film was changed, apparently in keeping with Roddenberry's critiques of the story as it then existed.
They still went to the center of the universe in hours. IIRC, Nimoy put in a few suggestions about Spock.
 
WW III started with Desert Storm. Khan, went into hiding because of the PGMs, hasn't been seen since...

It may be Gary Seven's replacement, took Khan for a very good dinner, Khan keeled over...and is now off planet entertaining the Talosians.
 
For USS Voyager, it may be a mapping problem. Navigation at warp speeds in uncharted territory may reduce what speeds you can maintain for long distances. Seven of Nine's new charts cut several years off their projected course. Navigating in the Beta Quadrant might have been easier if they didn't have issues with whatever was on the other side on the Romulan Star Empire (and probably the fallout of the collapse of said Empire if they were still traveling in the 2380s).
 
For USS Voyager, it may be a mapping problem. Navigation at warp speeds in uncharted territory may reduce what speeds you can maintain for long distances. Seven of Nine's new charts cut several years off their projected course. Navigating in the Beta Quadrant might have been easier if they didn't have issues with whatever was on the other side on the Romulan Star Empire (and probably the fallout of the collapse of said Empire if they were still traveling in the 2380s).
Long Range Sensors on Voyager were probably a huge limitation for figuring out local immediate navigation.

For Reference:
- Galaxy Class has a maximum long range sensor of ~17 ly at low resolution & ~5 ly at high resolution.
- Galaxy Class can distinguish a Federation Vessel at 10 ly (Probalby Medimum-ish Sensor Resolution)
- In 2367. Lieutenant Commander Geordi La Forge stated that the long range sensors aboard the USS Enterprise-D were able to scan a radius of ten light years within a 24-hour period

And the Intrepid class USS Voyager was supposed to be a Pocket Galaxy Class in terms of Capabilities with Modern (For the time) Tech Updates.
Voyager was able to scan 40 ly for Borg Vessels.

Voyager's Astrometric Sensors had a range of 2500 ly’s, but that's most likely for Star Charting & Navigation.
Not active scanning of Local Space for a specific signature.

In the 32nd Century, a SubSpace Relay Station can scan a 600 ly radius for StarFleet vessels.
 
Roddenberry may have gone on about believability, but he also went on about how the original series was largely apocryphal.
Not really, according to my sources.

Paula Block told me years ago that she once spoke with him on items TOS had established as canon, but he viewed TNG as primary in cases of contradiction. This fit with earlier quotes I had from Richard Arnold wherein, per his many conversations with Roddenberry, the latter didn't consider some TOS things as canonical. This mostly related to the third season where he wasn't running it, but it was a case-by-case, point-by-point thing, and mostly insofar as any direct contradiction was concerned.

The best synthesis of this is not that he viewed it as largely apocryphal, but that, a la Lucas, there was a slightly tweaked Special Edition in his head with some narrative alterations, one that was impossible to create. And, unfortunately, without a veritable database of what those tweaks might have been, we are left with TOS as-is.

It's good enough.
 
The Prime Time-line doesn't exist. Gene Roddenberry was erased from existence by the PARTY...


The Party is mother, the Party is Father, blessed be the name of the Party.

The Party erased it.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top