News Trans character announced

[JulieYBM]

I'm not saying that it is. It's why I added the (some) caveat. But it would be oppressive and transphobic for society to evolve in a manner which, while accepting trans-persons self-identity, argued that it was wrong to provide medical treatment to people who felt dysphoria, as it wasn't "accepting your body for what it is."

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that not every trans person wants surgery. Furthermore, I've very apprehensive about this talk of future tech to alter trans bodies at the fetal stage. Being trans is not a disease or disability to just be 'fixed' out like that.

This is just very dangerous stuff we're writing about.

 

[BillJ]

Being trans is not a disease or disability to just be 'fixed' out like that.

I agree. Though people will take the path of least resistance much of the time, and if they can "fix" something in-utero, then odds are that they will.

 

[KimMH]

Granted.

What came first, the movement or the magazine?

Suffrage as we know it began in the mid 1600s but women were castigated by Christ for being witches in the year aught-ish so pretty much FOREVER

eta: sorry- that was Paul. He sucked.

 

[eschaton]

I agree. Though people will take the path of least resistance much of the time, and if they can "fix" something in-utero, then odds are that they will.

Yeah. As much as people worry about the nightmare of state-mandated eugenics, frankly I'm far more terrified of what parents might do to alter their children out of misguided attempts to shield them from pain or give them a leg up on the competition.

 

[JulieYBM]

There's this bioessentialist element to correlating gender with genitals and it is extremely upsetting to think of a future where fetuses are tweaked like that to prevent people from being trans. Nobody is asking the child what they want for themselves, either.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that not every trans person wants surgery. Furthermore, I've very apprehensive about this talk of future tech to alter trans bodies at the fetal stage. Being trans is not a disease or disability to just be 'fixed' out like that.

This is just very dangerous stuff we're writing about.

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Century City 2004.

Lawyers in the Future.

A fertility doctor is looking at sperm DNA, and getting rid of the gay ones, without asking the parents.

Annalise Keaton (from How to get away with murder) is a Vampire.

There's another episode where youths are "adding" extra decorative ( but functional) penises to random places on their body, and saying that it is comparable to tattoos.

 

[eschaton]

Lawyers in the Future.

A fertility doctor is looking at sperm DNA, and getting rid of the gay ones, without asking the parents.

Annalise Keaton (from How to get away with murder) is a Vampire.

There's another episode where youths are "adding" extra decorative ( but functional) penises to random places on their body, and saying that it is comparable to tattoos.

I mean, this shit already happens. There's a reason why the sperm/eggs of people with advanced degrees are in high demand at fertility clinics. And why no one really wants sperm from short men. Apparently you can't give away redhead sperm either, for some reason.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I'm not saying that it is. It's why I added the (some) caveat. But it would be oppressive and transphobic for society to evolve in a manner which, while accepting trans-persons self-identity, argued that it was wrong to provide medical treatment to people who felt dysphoria, as it wasn't "accepting your body for what it is."

No one is saying it’s wrong for trans people to want to change their body, but a lot of that is trying to pass for safety reasons. If you are visibly trans you’re life is a lot harder because of cis people. So a lot of people try to hit into cis standards and go into hiding because they don’t want to get killed or face discrimination. In the future, this discrimination wouldnt exist and trans people would just be accepted as who they say they are. Any treatment they want would be available to them.

Honestly if you really wanted to show a future trans people would want would be to show a pregnant trans woman or have a trans man as the biological father of a child.

I agree. Though people will take the path of least resistance much of the time, and if they can "fix" something in-utero, then odds are that they will.

Most of the problems trans people face are due to cis people being transphobic. If anything is going to be fixed, it will be that. Dysphoria tends to go away with transitioning and that largely depends on what makes the trans person comfortable with their body. Fixing it in the womb is a step beyond what we currently do to intersex infants, something that intersex people are very much against since the infant doesn’t get to consent to it and their actual gender isn’t taken into consideration.

 

[eschaton]

Honestly if you really wanted to show a future trans people would want would be to show a pregnant trans woman or have a trans man as the biological father of a child.

The latter is probably only around 20 years away max TBH. I remember a few years ago listening to this story on NPR about how they took rat skin cells and basically scooped out the DNA and ported it into sperm cells, which then created baby rats. They talked about how with this technology you could theoretically use a sample of a celebrity's skin to impregnate yourself, but the first thing it made me think of is it opens up the possibility of allowing those who do not make sperm (like lesbians and transmen) to be a joint biological parent with a cis female.

Most of the problems trans people face are due to cis people being transphobic. If anything is going to be fixed, it will be that. Dysphoria tends to go away with transitioning and that largely depends on what makes the trans person comfortable with their body. Fixing it in the womb is a step beyond what we currently do to intersex infants, something that intersex people are very much against since the infant doesn’t get to consent to it and their actual gender isn’t taken into consideration.

Isn't part of the reason why intersex medical intervention has become so problematic is because doctors so often make the wrong call though? They like, do a chromosome analysis - or even worse, a judgement based upon how big the clitoris/penis is - and assign a gender accordingly. Presumably if nothing else future technology would be less fallible in terms of determining what gender the brain is developing towards, and thus make better judgement calls. And even if sometimes a bad call is made, if SRS is cheap, easy, and reversible, then it's no big deal either way, as you're not taking away any choices whatsoever from the child.

 

[NCC-73515]

I imagine they can scan a baby's brain in the future and figure out its identity. Then the parents can name it accordingly.

 

[CorporalClegg]

One could easily argue that that's pretty fucking draconian.

 

[eschaton]

One could easily argue that that's pretty fucking draconian.

Of course it is, but we have always had somewhat conflicting ideals involving children in our culture, because they are seen as both extensions of the will of the parent, as well as individuals whose own desires should be taken into account.

I mean, it's obvious that when it comes to children the issue of "consent" doesn't really come into things in at least some cases, since no one consents to being born. Where it gets messier is the question of - for example - if someone is part of some minority ethnoreligious group if the rights of the parent to raise their children within their own traditions trump the rights of the child to be exposed to the full range of options which are available.

 

[JulieYBM]

Religious rights do not trump human rights. No child should have their body altered without their consent.

 

[CorporalClegg]

It isn't a matter of consent. It's a matter of agency. Those are not the same thing.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Religious rights do not trump human rights. No child should have their body altered without their consent.

The major driver of secular circumcision in the late 19th century America was Kelogg, the health nut inventor of cornflakes, who assured all far and wide that this would snip teenage masturbation in the bud.

God bless America!

 

[JulieYBM]

The major driver of secular circumcision in the late 19th century America was Kelogg, the health nut inventor of cornflakes, who assured all far and wide that this would snip teenage masturbation in the bud.

God bless America!

Before HRT I had three-to-five times a day where I proved them wrong!

 

[Jayson1]

There's this bioessentialist element to correlating gender with genitals and it is extremely upsetting to think of a future where fetuses are tweaked like that to prevent people from being trans. Nobody is asking the child what they want for themselves, either.

You at least got a in-universe reason why this can't happen in Trek with their ban on genetic engineering.

Jason

 

[Guy Gardener]

You at least got a in-universe reason why this can't happen in Trek with their ban on genetic engineering.

Jason

That's only with Humans.

Denobulans can do what they want, and bynars staple microchips into their babies.

Denobulans are probably all bisexual.

Everyone has three spouses.

So you can end up with 40 people in a swimming pool brimming in KY jelly, all intermarried, and all f*cking.

 

[cooleddie74]

So you can end up with 40 people in a swimming pool brimming in KY jelly, all intermarried, and all f*cking.

Hold on.

Taking notes here.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Hold on.

Taking notes here.

I'm recalling contradicting information.

Denobulans don't like to be touched.

(It's Cutler you Dweeb, let her touch you!)

But they are expert markspersons.

(Phlox playing basket ball. He was sinking three pointers without looking.)

Denobulans have sex from a generous distance?

It's why a girl needs three husbands to get one baby, if they're all ten feet away trying to get a hole in one, volley after volley after volley.

Or why a guy needs three wives, so that if he misses the first wife, maybe he tags wife two or three instead?