What, you didn't get them? Mike NiFong said he'd send them right over to you.
T'Pol
- Thread starter Captain59
- Start date
What, you didn't get them? Mike NiFong said he'd send them right over to you.
I seem to be missing all the facts, today.
Well, at least it's comforting to know that I'm in the right place.
Clearly I watched 4 years of some other show. No wonder I couldn't agree with most of the posters in the ENT forum! D'oh!
Vulcanized rubber, perhaps, but one only has to be stretchy and resilient - and some parts of her didn't look that resilient, either
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And yet Giselle Bundchen does it so much better! Frankly, I never found Blalock or T'Pol 'sensual,' or even attractive from a distance - her body language was about as stiff as, well, I wasn't when I saw her
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And even less actual ability to walk and chew gum simultaneously. The reason she didn't show any emotion was because to do so requires acting ability - not really a good trade-off, IMNSHO.
Nope, but if she'd worn a porkchop, at least Porthos might've ...
All seriousness aside, I found nothing either appealing or interesting about T'Pol, and nothing impressive about the "actress" who wore the outfits with the board up the back and the marionette strings on her wrists. Maybe I wouldn't mind having T'Pol in the film (if the role is relevant, in any way), but not if they stoop to letting Jolene on the set.
I can see T'Pol in at least one scene in the movie; basically a one-on-one conversation with Spock, who is suppsoed to be the first actual Vulcan in the Starfleet at this time (assuming this isn't buried in the reimagination of the film) I can see it as a Mentor/Student dynamic where T'Pol would recall from her experiences on the NX-01 and give Spock some valauble insight on working with humans. Maybe she would even give him final advice on what to do should he lose grasp of his logical demeanor, based on experience (granted, T'Pol leanred what NOT to do when that happened, but it's still useful information to teach Spock).
With that said, I'm rather indifferent about whether or not Jolene is actually in the movie in that role, but that's more or less how I'd go about creating a scene that justifies her appearance.
With that said, I'm rather indifferent about whether or not Jolene is actually in the movie in that role, but that's more or less how I'd go about creating a scene that justifies her appearance.
No, read the post again. I am not saying that a majority of fans liked Enterprise or vice versa. I am saying that only a minority of fans are petty and stupid enough to care about such a trivial thing. If you think that a majority of fans hate Enterprise so much that they wouldn't bother seeing the movie should a character from it have a cameo then you are deluded. Unbelievably so. That is the kind of uber-geekinesss that TPTB of this movie will want to avoid rather than pander to. I am not saying that they should or shouldn't do it, merely highlighting once again the sad depths of geekdom that you find online.
Also, we all know that you will see this movie regardless, and more than likely pay for the privelage regardless of what you say on here. It is fake. Imagine a real-life conversation where someone asks "Are you seeing the new Star Trek movie? I hear your a fan", and the response is "No way! It looks good but it has a cameo in it from a character from a series I didn't like! I'm boycotting it!". You would be laughed at, and IRL conversations like that mostly don't happen (thankfully). It is just another example of weird online aggressive competitiveness for the sake of it that confuses the hell out of me.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
No, he's NOT supposed to be that. He's said to be the BEST first officer in Starfleet, never was there ever a mention of him being the first. In fact, seeing as there is an entire ship with nothing but Vulcans flying out there, we can very safely say, that he's NOT the first Vulcan in Starfleet - not even close.
"When I was doing drugs..."
I don't THINK so!
Spock is HALF human himself. Judging by the Cage, he had a lot more difficulty controlling his emotions at first; he'd probably be more human than Vulcan at the time; and seeing as he has a human mother, he has no need for Miss "I did drugs to experience emotions, as nothing but an excuse, because I would have to do is lower my control them to feel them full force, and I feel them really all the time I just control them with my logic."
3D Master
Rear Admiral
If a character is in it from that series, it by definition can't look good. The very fact that they want to avoid geekiness, equals not putting in any reference to any of the shows, and even LESS so THAT one. The epitome of regurgitating everything that was geeky, cheezy, and stale, in a time when not of it should be present.
And my answer wouldn't start with "no way" and than the rest, it would start with, "I'm not a fan, not anymore. The stale cheezy crap has worn out its welcome, and it seems to be continuity with the stale cheezy crap instead of something fresh."
I know what you say is true. But there's something that bugs me: Whenever this "Spock being the first vulcan officer in Starfleet" thing comes up, someone mentions the USS Intrepid -- as it rightly is a ship made up of vulcan officers. But how can that be proof, that Spock isn't the freakin' first vulcan officer in all of Starfleet? For all we know every Vulcan onboard the Intrepid attended the Academy after Spock. I mean, considering the lifespan Vulcans have it could totally be possible for Spock to be the first. Yes, I know that's unlikely (and I don't even believe it myself). But some people tend to treat this Intrepid thing as hard and fast evidence! Am I totally off?
Spock is only a year or two older than Kirk. So it would not be possible for him to have attended the Academy before the Intrepid's crew.
Can anyone please tell me what was so "hot" about T'Pol/Jolene Blalock? The only thing(s) that one could even remotely consider hot are her tits, and those aren't even real!
And seriously, only Kim Cattrall did a worse job in portraying a Vulcan!
And seriously, only Kim Cattrall did a worse job in portraying a Vulcan!
3D Master
Rear Admiral
:sighs:
Simple common sense. Nowhere is it EVER said that Spock is the first Vulcan in Star Trek. Nowhere, not even close. I don't even know how the concept even came into existence. From what I know, it isn't even in any books. It's not in any encyclopedia, it's not in any episode. It's a meme. Best scenario I can come up with, is that it occurred in some kind of Fanfiction back in the early 70s and started living a life on its own. A life that makes no sense, because every piece of evidence and history we've got, points to that Spock can't be the first Vulcan in Starfleet.
Why then, would someone want to put this own personal preference that this concept that more contradicts TOS than not, above the more basic common sense and TOS evidence; just because the evidence is 99,9999999999999% conclusive and not the full 100%?
It makes no sens. We as the ST fan base at large should aggressively battle this concept and crush it into the ground, especially as something to be held against this new film. Nobody working on the new film, unless they are so intimately familiar with ST fandom they know about this concept held by a minority of fans, will ever know of Spock being the first in Starfleet, even if they painstakingly read the entire encyclopedia and watch every single Star Trek episode and read all the novels.
Right, a ship full of cadets... and no captain.
Simple common sense. Nowhere is it EVER said that Spock is the first Vulcan in Star Trek. Nowhere, not even close. I don't even know how the concept even came into existence. From what I know, it isn't even in any books. It's not in any encyclopedia, it's not in any episode. It's a meme. Best scenario I can come up with, is that it occurred in some kind of Fanfiction back in the early 70s and started living a life on its own. A life that makes no sense, because every piece of evidence and history we've got, points to that Spock can't be the first Vulcan in Starfleet.
Why then, would someone want to put this own personal preference that this concept that more contradicts TOS than not, above the more basic common sense and TOS evidence; just because the evidence is 99,9999999999999% conclusive and not the full 100%?
It makes no sens. We as the ST fan base at large should aggressively battle this concept and crush it into the ground, especially as something to be held against this new film. Nobody working on the new film, unless they are so intimately familiar with ST fandom they know about this concept held by a minority of fans, will ever know of Spock being the first in Starfleet, even if they painstakingly read the entire encyclopedia and watch every single Star Trek episode and read all the novels.
Right, a ship full of cadets... and no captain.
Highly unlikely. The Intrepid was a Constitution-class ship, the state of the art at the time. Starfleet would never give a ship like that to cadets.
And even if it had, they would have said something in the episode itself if that had been the case.
I can.
:sighs: Maybe you get me wrong. I totally agree and believe that Spock wasn't the first vulcan officer in Starfleet! I know -- like you -- that it was never said in any episode. I simply have a problem when you say that the Intrepid is proof for that.
I just want you to acknowledge that a ship full of vulcans isn't some kind of evidence for Spock not being the first vulcan of Starfleet! It may seem improbable that he was -- but it's not impossible!
But ... I don't want to fight with you. So ...
Hell, even Memory Alpha speaks of the Intrepid as a ship "crewed ALMOST entirely by Vulcans". So it's very likely that there were humans (or whatever) onboard, too. So the captain could also be human. Truth is, the vulcans on the Intrepid don't even have to be younger than Spock! Very well they could be older, but attended Starlfeet Academy later. IIRC, Spock served for more than 10 years in Starfleet. Enough time for other vulcans (i.e. the crew of the Intrepid) to attend Starfleet Academy. Anyway.
I just want you to acknowledge that a ship full of vulcans isn't some kind of evidence for Spock not being the first vulcan of Starfleet! It may seem improbable that he was -- but it's not impossible!
But ... I don't want to fight with you. So ...
You're wasting your time.
Besides, Memory Alpha - being a wiki that anyone can edit - is, by definition, not a reliable source. There is no dialogue onscreen that says anything other than the Intrepid's crew being all Vulcan (watch Spock's reaction to their deaths). Therefore, until we hear differently, they *are* all Vulcans.
I think the more rational argument is that Cage predates Menagerie by 11 years. Lt. Spock might well have been the first Vulcan in UFP-Starfleet that came through UFP-Starfleet Academy at that point.
The Intrepid is destroyed 13 years later from Cage, and Spock was already a Lt. I'm sure that in 15 or so years, the Intrepid wouldn't be crewed only by cadets.
So again, Intrepid doesn't make a point one way or the other on Spock's "priority"... However, it absolutely was an all-Vulcan ship, it said so in dialogue!
Bringing this back to T'Pol, there's no way every officer could have gone through UFP-Starfleet Academy... T'Pol didn't of course, and also, from the sheer number of ships involved, the Academy would have to be so large as to be useless. There must be alternative ways in (such as O'Brien's way in), or even other academies.
Parallels today would include The Citadel, VMI, and a number of Maritime Academies in the US, and countless college-based ROTC programs which all lead one to being able to receive a commission without passing through the Service Academies.
Earlier, I noted I'd rather see Sarek or Soval in Star Trek XI. On second thought, a good use of T'Pol would be assigning her as Sarek's mother. A CGI-aged Blalock could send young Spock a message noting the logic of his promotion under Kirk. For "new viewers", it's a note from home. For "ENT haters" it's the last straw. For "ENT T/T shippers" it's annoying because it means T'Pol married another Vulcan (Skon) after Trip's death. For the rest of us, it's ROTFL funny. Maybe T'Pol should have a goatee! Or a small beagle she's feeding cheese.
The Intrepid is destroyed 13 years later from Cage, and Spock was already a Lt. I'm sure that in 15 or so years, the Intrepid wouldn't be crewed only by cadets.
So again, Intrepid doesn't make a point one way or the other on Spock's "priority"... However, it absolutely was an all-Vulcan ship, it said so in dialogue!
Bringing this back to T'Pol, there's no way every officer could have gone through UFP-Starfleet Academy... T'Pol didn't of course, and also, from the sheer number of ships involved, the Academy would have to be so large as to be useless. There must be alternative ways in (such as O'Brien's way in), or even other academies.
Parallels today would include The Citadel, VMI, and a number of Maritime Academies in the US, and countless college-based ROTC programs which all lead one to being able to receive a commission without passing through the Service Academies.
Earlier, I noted I'd rather see Sarek or Soval in Star Trek XI. On second thought, a good use of T'Pol would be assigning her as Sarek's mother. A CGI-aged Blalock could send young Spock a message noting the logic of his promotion under Kirk. For "new viewers", it's a note from home. For "ENT haters" it's the last straw. For "ENT T/T shippers" it's annoying because it means T'Pol married another Vulcan (Skon) after Trip's death. For the rest of us, it's ROTFL funny. Maybe T'Pol should have a goatee! Or a small beagle she's feeding cheese.
T'Pol as Sarek's mother is a charming idea. All of that kind of thing is probably beyond the scope of the script, though - it probably (hopefully) ain't old home week.
Y'know, I thought I was putting together something that seemed reasonable and might have allowed for a sufficent backdrop to Spock's Character... but right now I feel that an elitest just ripped my head off and proceeded to defecate down my esophagus for my troubles.
I just wanna ask, in the interest of being enlightened; where does it say the Intrepid is a Constitution Class vessel, and therefore an actual part of Starfleet?
I just wanna ask, in the interest of being enlightened; where does it say the Intrepid is a Constitution Class vessel, and therefore an actual part of Starfleet?
I just rewatched the episode ("The Immunity Syndrome"). It is NEVER said! It is just assumed because a list in Commodore Stone's office ("Court Martial") gives some NCC-1xxx registries and the dialog is about an Intrepid that is in repair at the starbase. So it is assumed that all Constitution-Class vessels have a NCC-1xxx registry. But this is never said, IIRC. Also, "The Immunity Syndrome" speaks about 400 vulcans on the Intrepid -- which is somehow taken as evidence for the Intrepid being a Constitution-Class vessel, too. Is this said in any episode? No. One more thing: They not even say USS Intrepid! So it could totally be just a vulcan ship (hence, Spock COULD have been the first vulcan officer in Starfleet. Mark my words: He COULD! I don't say that he was!). But I really don't want to inflame. So maybe this topic should rest.
