T'Pol

[Balthier the Great]

middyseafort said:

23skidoo said:

Captain59 said:
If she isn't in it, than the movie will go to hell in a handbasket. Starfleet and the United Federation of Planets owe their extire existance to T'Pol. To ignore her would be damning.

You hear me, J.J.???

Much as I'd like to see an acknowledgement of ENT and of T'Pol, Trek XI should be a clean start, making no reference to anything but TOS. That includes the Nimoy scenes. With any luck they'll take place on Vulcan with no reference to anything TNG-related.

Nothing against the spin-offs, but considering the mandate of the film is to relaunch the franchise, they can't do it by making reference to the other shows or films. If Trek XI hits and the franchise get's its transfusion, then later productions can make the link, if they so choose.

I keep comparing Trek XI to the revival of Doctor Who, and this is completely intentional. The producers of that show have done almost everything right in relaunching that franchise -- including the fact that the writers did not hit the (new) viewers over the head with all the different jargon phrase and concepts that had been established in the franchise over the years. It took until the start of the 3rd revival season before the Doctor's home planet was named on screen again, for example.

Trek XI should focus on telling a good story first and foremost, even if it means omitting any link to any of the other aspects of the franchise. Save that for Trek XII.

Cheers!

Alex

Exactly. TOS and only TOS should be the frame of reference. If it's relevant to the story, okay. If it's not, then don't bother. Any reference, just like in nuDW, should only be made if it helps move the story and is part of the story.

As I've said before, if it has a captain named Kirk, a Vulcan named Spock, a cynical doctor named Bones, a ship called Enterprise and a good, rip-roaring story, then to hell with everything else.

I agree with the sentiment, but there would be a biggish problem with a WHO-style reboot. Dr. Who basicly reboots itself. The doctor goes into a coma, and he comes back to a completely different cast. I don't know if you can do that with any other series without it getting kinda weird. I don't think comas will work very well.

 

[Mordock]

RookieBatman said:
I don't understand this reasoning. We should acknowledge no continuity past the original series, which includes ignoring the original cast movies and a member of the original cast? Why?

Is that so far out, given the idea of giving the property a clean start? Shit, a case can be made that there shouldn't even be very much TOS continuity. Is anybody up for a movie about Harry Mudd and Cyrano Jones selling all-inclusive vacations to Talos IV?

 

[RookieBatman]

Brutal Strudel said:
Because involving Nimoy means involving 24th century continuity, i.e. Spock's messianic/apostolic sojourn on Romulus. This would, no doubt, thrill a great many people on this board. I'm just not one of them. I don't expect XI to come out and say none of the movies, TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT ever happened, I'd just prefer it if it didn't mention it. I'd also prefer it if we don't get a time travel the story right out of the gate.

But that's just a grumpy old man's opinion. And BTW, didn't I tell you already to get off my lawn?

I agree with Tralah. My personal opinion is that there will be little to no reference to Romulus, reunification, or Captain Picard (even though any or all of these will disappoint some fans). Also, I'm kinda hoping that Spock won't be wearing robes like in STIV or Unification, but will be wearing something more like what Sarek had in Journey to Babel. But that's just me.

Oh, and I checked with the zoning board, and it turns out this is my lawn.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

An outfit like Sarek's? Kid, I like the way you think. Now to bribe someone on the zoning board (but not until after Matlock).

 

[Who_Trek]

I wouldn't mind a few nods / in-jokes to the future, but basically, yeah, keep it old-school and see what happens.

 

[Stardate]

If we cant have Tpol how about then uniform in XI would be inspired by Tpol uniforms in season 3 and 4 and hire some models as extra in XI movie. This would maybe make some Tpol fans(entire world heterosexual male population ) happy.

 

[mythme]

Well if there was a scene on Vulcan, perhaps with the High Command, and T'Pol was one of the representatives there, I wouldn't mind that. Wouldn't even have to mention her by name. The fans would know its her and the others will just think she's another Vulcan.

Might also be nice to have the same girl who played the young T'Pau - would actually make more sense since she's tied in with Sarek's family.

 

[EyalM]

Do we really need to see a 200 years old T'Pol in a cat suite?

 

[mythme]

apparently most didn't have a problem with a 66 year old T'Pol in a catsuit (her age during "Zero Hour").

 

[RookieBatman]

Brutal Strudel said:
An outfit like Sarek's? Kid, I like the way you think. Now to bribe someone on the zoning board (but not until after Matlock).

If you can somehow influence the zoning board to get Abrams to implement my suggestions, I'll give you my lawn, and its contingent gnomes.

 

[StarMan]

I imagine the chances of T'Pol being in Star Trek XI are about as low as the chances of ME being in Star Trek XI.

 

[Dale]

mythme said:Might also be nice to have the same girl who played the young T'Pau - would actually make more sense since she's tied in with Sarek's family.

I suppose it beats exhuming the bones of Celia Lovsky.

Seriously, though, are ENT fans that hungry to have their show more thoroughly canonized? I mean, it's canon already, isn't it?

 

[ialfan]

I will be terribly disappointed if Enterprise isn't acknowledged in the movie in some way just like I'll be disappointed if there isn't some reference to Spock's time on Romulus in the scenes with old Spock.

 

[Peacemaker]

23skidoo said:

Captain59 said:
If she isn't in it, than the movie will go to hell in a handbasket. Starfleet and the United Federation of Planets owe their extire existance to T'Pol. To ignore her would be damning.

You hear me, J.J.???

Much as I'd like to see an acknowledgement of ENT and of T'Pol, Trek XI should be a clean start, making no reference to anything but TOS. That includes the Nimoy scenes. With any luck they'll take place on Vulcan with no reference to anything TNG-related.

Nothing against the spin-offs, but considering the mandate of the film is to relaunch the franchise, they can't do it by making reference to the other shows or films. If Trek XI hits and the franchise get's its transfusion, then later productions can make the link, if they so choose.

I keep comparing Trek XI to the revival of Doctor Who, and this is completely intentional. The producers of that show have done almost everything right in relaunching that franchise -- including the fact that the writers did not hit the (new) viewers over the head with all the different jargon phrase and concepts that had been established in the franchise over the years. It took until the start of the 3rd revival season before the Doctor's home planet was named on screen again, for example.

Trek XI should focus on telling a good story first and foremost, even if it means omitting any link to any of the other aspects of the franchise. Save that for Trek XII.

Cheers!

Alex

If your analogy is to work, then it would not be at all strange for T'Pol to appear in Trek XI, for, in new Who the Nestenes & Autons appeared, as did the Daleks and the Emperor Dalek - not seen since Pat Troughton's era. So, the proper analogy is not for them not to connect Trek XI to the older members of the franchise, but, if they show them to do so with very little if any explanation or exposition, for that is the way these were all (re)introduced in Doctor Who.

Ergo, if your analogy is to hold, T'Pol should in fact show up, since she would certainly still be alive in the era of TOS, but she should simply be there, perhaps at the christening of the Enterprise - perhaps actually saying few words the way Cochrane did (though he was by then lost), but without any exposition regarding who she is - just an older Vulcan woman (head of their diplomatic delegation?) as far as the general audience knows, but for us, the fans, we know exactly who she is. That, I believe would better fit your analogy with Doctor Who than not having her there at all.

 

[Saxman1]

All the PR points to JJ being a TOS fan-only. I'd expect no references to ENT or any other ST shows other than the slight possibility/tease of some TOS references.

I'm a fan of TOS and all ST since day one (1966) and I'm looking forward to this film a ton!

 

[Brutal Strudel]

mythme said:
apparently most didn't have a problem with a 66 year old T'Pol in a catsuit (her age during "Zero Hour").

Hell, there are some 60+ year old humans I wouldn't mind seeing in a catsuit or, better still, my bed (I'm 37)--I'm looking at you, Helen Mirren. 66 is barely middle-aged for a Vulcan.

 

[3D Master]

SeerSGB said:
take the hit in the fanbase (and come one, again let's be honest, for all the bitching and moaning, the actual drop in fans would not be as large as some like to claim) and be done with it.

Wait... there's a fanbase?

 

[23skidoo]

peacemaker said:
Ergo, if your analogy is to hold, T'Pol should in fact show up, since she would certainly still be alive in the era of TOS, but she should simply be there, perhaps at the christening of the Enterprise - perhaps actually saying few words the way Cochrane did (though he was by then lost), but without any exposition regarding who she is - just an older Vulcan woman (head of their diplomatic delegation?) as far as the general audience knows, but for us, the fans, we know exactly who she is. That, I believe would better fit your analogy with Doctor Who than not having her there at all.

It still would make no logical sense. Trek XI is supposed to be a brand new start. No references to anything in the past. The appearance of villains doesn't count -- we don't need to spend film time explaining who the Daleks are or who the Klingons are. Anyone with half a brain will know instantly that they're villains. But while Doctor Who tapped the Daleks well right off the bat, it wasn't till the second season that Sarah Jane Smith and K9 were brought back, the start of the 3rd before his home planet was name-dropped, and the end of the third season before (censored for spoiler ) appeared again.

And perhaps the biggest thing of all -- and I directly liken this to the whole "bring back Kirk" discussion -- is that the producers of Doctor Who as yet still have not told us how and why the Ninth Doctor came to be. No time has been spent explaining such "old business". If Kirk were to appear in Trek XI, they'd have to spend time explaining how he escaped the Nexus. Then they'd have to explain the Nexus...

But we're not talking about Doctor Who. We're talking about Star Trek, a franchise that is considered a joke by many mainstream audiences. And Trek XI's job is to not make us happy (us being longtime fans) but rather to bring in the audiences who went to see Maid in Manhatten and Two Towers rather than Nemesis and who preferred watching Smallville and American Idol instead of Enterprise. And the less Abrams and his writers dig into the "let's show them just for the sake of showing them" well, the better. I'm vehemently opposed to Nimoy appearing for this very reason, and hopefully the self-referencing will stop there. As I say, if Trek XI brings the franchise back from the cinematic/televised dead, then there'll be plenty of time in TrekXII to play "whatever happened to..."

That said, to bring in another anology, Casino Royale successfully relaunched the franchise and from all accounts the writers are still trying to avoid bringing back longtime characters such as Q and Moneypenny. So the jury is out whether Trek XII should bother

Cheers!

Alex

 

[3D Master]

If T'Pol or any other Enterprise character is in Trek XI, I'm not even going to bother watching it.

 

[Oso Blanco]

A prequel would be a prequel to ALL Star Trek, not just TOS. So what would be the point in ignoring the 24th century? What kind of problem do people suddenly have with the TNG era shows anyway?

Regarding the main topic here, the very last person I want to see in any Trek incarnation is T'Pol. She was the worst character/actress Star Trek ever had, and there is absolutely no need to give her another second of screen time.