Spoilers TP: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread

[Mage]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

If DS9 needs cores, why not buy them from Cardassia?

The Nor-class stations are pretty old, I think about 50 years by now. So, perhaps parts for these classes are no longer in production on Cardassia.

 

[Relayer1]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

For such a strategically vital station I'm sure they can cobble together some old Cardassian tech from other sources, or install a shiny new Starfleet doohicky. The Corps of Engineers have done a lot harder jobs. If only they hadn't misplaced Scotty...

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

There comes a point where it makes more sense to replace old hardware than to fix it. Machines have a designed life cycle at which point they have been through so many stress cycles where it is unsafe to continue to operate them. Even if a machine is safe to operate, the cost of replacement may be better than the cost of refurbishment.

Even if DS9 can be fixed/upgraded for continued Starfleet use, it may not be cost effective to do so compared to building a new station with modern Starfleet technology.

 

[Relayer1]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

There comes a point where it makes more sense to replace old hardware than to fix it. Machines have a designed life cycle at which point they have been through so many stress cycles where it is unsafe to continue to operate them. Even if a machine is safe to operate, the cost of replacement may be better than the cost of refurbishment.

Even if DS9 can be fixed/upgraded for continued Starfleet use, it may not be cost effective to do so compared to building a new station with modern Starfleet technology.

This came up a while ago - I posted that using an existing station, gutting it and installing all new equipment must make logistical sense. Christopher countered that with replicator technology that may not be the case.

Jury's out...

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I'm not talking about technology, I'm talking about the structure itself. For example, modern aircraft are certified for specified service life or service cycles, not in expectations of better technology, but because metals fatique and wear out. Eventually, microcracks and granular imperfections will cause flaws that will cause the structure to essentially grow old and break. If you watched BSG, the same thing happened to Galactica; its wear was a result of age, compounded by a tough life.

Terok Nor is old and lived a hard life. I imagine its structure is riddled with micro fractures. You can only maintain and refurbish such structure defects so much, take it from an aerospace engineer.

 

[Sci]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Terok Nor is old and lived a hard life. I imagine its structure is riddled with micro fractures. You can only maintain and refurbish such structure defects so much, take it from an aerospace engineer.

Deep Space 9 isn't that old. Construction began in 2346 and finished in 2351 -- it's only about 37 years old as of the end of Plagues of Night. By contrast, numerous Federation starships and starbases are actually much older than Deep Space 9 -- the entire run of Excelsior- and Miranda-class starships, for instance.

 

[Mike Winters]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

For such a strategically vital station I'm sure they can cobble together some old Cardassian tech from other sources, or install a shiny new Starfleet doohicky. The Corps of Engineers have done a lot harder jobs. If only they hadn't misplaced Scotty...

Except that they can't do that easily. If they could have, they would have been able to pull it off in the aftermath of Avatar. Instead, the only thing they could do in a reasonable time frame was to do some warp/tractor magic using a number of ships to bring Empok Nor to the Bajor system. I am sure that the SCE has been working off and on since the Federation took over to try and marry Federation and Cardassian Tech.

Right now, if the station survived, you have a severely compromised station (imagine the damage that an explosion like that in close proximity could inflict) and no power core readily available (again)...

 

[Sci]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

For such a strategically vital station I'm sure they can cobble together some old Cardassian tech from other sources, or install a shiny new Starfleet doohicky. The Corps of Engineers have done a lot harder jobs. If only they hadn't misplaced Scotty...

Except that they can't do that easily. If they could have, they would have been able to pull it off in the aftermath of Avatar. Instead, the only thing they could do in a reasonable time frame was to do some warp/tractor magic using a number of ships to bring Empok Nor to the Bajor system. I am sure that the SCE has been working off and on since the Federation took over to try and marry Federation and Cardassian Tech.

Right now, if the station survived, you have a severely compromised station (imagine the damage that an explosion like that in close proximity could inflict) and no power core readily available (again)...

To be fair, the Cardassian industrial base has recovered a great deal from the Dominion War by 2383, and Federation-Cardassian relations are much warmer than they were in 2376. It's not implausible that finding a replacement power core for Nor-class stations is easier in 2383 than in 2376.

 

[Enterpriserules]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

It's interesting how much the book slags Terok Nor, really. *lol* Prynn disses it, Picard disses it, the Militia guy disses it.... doesn't anybody like the poor station?

I always loved DS9's interior, I guess I am more tolerant of other species and achitecture than Picard and Starfleet types.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Terok Nor is old and lived a hard life. I imagine its structure is riddled with micro fractures. You can only maintain and refurbish such structure defects so much, take it from an aerospace engineer.

Deep Space 9 isn't that old. Construction began in 2346 and finished in 2351 -- it's only about 37 years old as of the end of Plagues of Night. By contrast, numerous Federation starships and starbases are actually much older than Deep Space 9 -- the entire run of Excelsior- and Miranda-class starships, for instance.

True. But is also doing work it was not designed to do. I don't think it was meant to be caught in front line battles, endure the gravitation loads of a nearby wormhole, or even the high volume of docking activity it experienced when it went from an ore processing station to a military and commercial outpost.

 

[Ronald Held]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

With the state of the Federation, I doubt it has the resources to completely replace the DS9 in a short period of time.

 

[Mike Winters]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

For such a strategically vital station I'm sure they can cobble together some old Cardassian tech from other sources, or install a shiny new Starfleet doohicky. The Corps of Engineers have done a lot harder jobs. If only they hadn't misplaced Scotty...

Except that they can't do that easily. If they could have, they would have been able to pull it off in the aftermath of Avatar. Instead, the only thing they could do in a reasonable time frame was to do some warp/tractor magic using a number of ships to bring Empok Nor to the Bajor system. I am sure that the SCE has been working off and on since the Federation took over to try and marry Federation and Cardassian Tech.

Right now, if the station survived, you have a severely compromised station (imagine the damage that an explosion like that in close proximity could inflict) and no power core readily available (again)...

To be fair, the Cardassian industrial base has recovered a great deal from the Dominion War by 2383, and Federation-Cardassian relations are much warmer than they were in 2376. It's not implausible that finding a replacement power core for Nor-class stations is easier in 2383 than in 2376.

You are correct that the industrial base has been rebuilt since the end of the war, but the real questions would be:

But whether or not there is the ability to manufacture the core and the power components are another story. Given the age of the stations, they could have been phased out and the facilities to build components been closed or re-tooled.

Even with a manufacturing base up and running, it still might not be possible to build the replacement components.

 

[Mike Winters]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

With the state of the Federation, I doubt it has the resources to completely replace the DS9 in a short period of time.

I agree. But if DS9 was destroyed, and the station on the cover of the next novel is a replacement (pure conjecture as it could be a Gamma Quadrant station which has been the thought for a long time), it could be a station that was being built elsewhere that was moved. Maybe one from the Andorian system since I doubt the Federation/Starfleet would allow Federation/Starfleet property to remain in system.

Who is to say it has to be a complete from scratch construction.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

With the state of the Federation, I doubt it has the resources to completely replace the DS9 in a short period of time.

The station on the cover of Raise the Dawn doesn't look too big. It is also modular so it looks like most of the construction doesn't take place on site, more like assemblying the nodes.

Due to the size of the station on the cover, I'm hoping it isn't a replacement.

 

[Paris]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I just finished, and i'm really impressed. I'm one of the people who really liked RBoE, and this book felt like the perfect continuation to a lot of the elements from that book. The Romulan politics, the Sisko arc, Spock. Happyhappyhappy. Can't wait for Raise the Dawn on June 26

 

[shanejayell]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Another reason we might see it replaced is because DS9 has been doing stuff it wasn't DESIGNED to do.

Terok Nor was built to be a ore relay station.

It is not:
A battle station
A Traffic Control Hub
A Diplomatic headquarters
A scientific research station

All of which are jobs DS9 has had to do. Maybe it's time to scrap it and build a starbase actually designed to do the job.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Gah, my copy still isn't here! I'm getting impatient!

 

[Sci]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Gah, my copy still isn't here! I'm getting impatient!

There's a reason I've switched to eBooks.

 

[Kertrats47]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Gah, my copy still isn't here! I'm getting impatient!

There's a reason I've switched to eBooks.

Agreed! I may not be able to get it early like some folks, but a guarantee to start reading it on the release date isn't bad at all. Plus, I'm in Korea, and sadly the newest book I see on the shelves in the large bookstores here in Seoul is last year's Typhon Pact: Paths of Disharmony.

 

[BrentMc]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I just finished Plagues of Night. I enjoyed the book very much. I gave it an above average. I like to save the top ranking for my favorite books and I wish there was a rating between outstanding and above average.

I found the book pretty exciting, so I left a note on DRGIII's facebook page. I'm sorry to read he doesn't post here anymore. I'm sure when you work really hard on something it is hard to hear people complain.

I am not sad DS9 exploded. If we find out it is destroyed at the beginning of Raise the Dawn I will be OK with it. DS9 feels like a funeral to me, because it was never about the station; it was the people who made it great and many of them have moved on. I would rather read a DS9 novel set during the series than one with a new crew.

I have not read all the back posts. I read a few posts about the station on the cover of Raise the Dawn. Did anyone suggest that it could be a uncloaked Typhon pact station that appears as Enterprise comes through the wormhole?

I will be glad when Prynn buries Vaughn. It needs to be done already.

I wonder how everyone will feel when they learn Kira warned Kassidy after her vision, but let the ship meet its doom with all those people on board. (if they survive the station explosion).

I think Kassidy would have left Rebecca on Bajor on the first run of evacuees.

Are the quantum torpedoes those future torpedoes from Voyager Endgame? I think they seemed so powerful in Destiny, but don't seem as powerful here.

All in all I enjoyed the book. Any thoughts on my remarks are welcome.