Spoilers TP: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread

[Paper Moon]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Just finished... and wow! I voted "outstanding" (and, incidentally, was the 47th vote; do I get a prize for that? )

Spoilers ahead. (And long post too. Sorry 'bout that. I get excited. You understand, I'm sure.)

I liked a lot of things about this book. This year, starting in February, I read (and reread in some cases) all of the DS9-R books up through the Worlds of DS9 trilogy (wasn't interested in the MU stuff) and then reread PoD, ZSG and the Sisko sections of RBoE. Very glad I took the time to reread the other TYP novels, because it was nice to see DRGIII weave all of them together so well in the first half of the book. ZSG worked very well as an episodic DS9 novel, but it was great to see both the build-up and the fall-out from Bashir and Sarina's mission. And this novel totally made RBoE worth it. Sisko's actions were very believable in both books. As others have said, Sisko does have a history of running away. And in this case, he thinks he has objective evidence that forces him to do so.

I loved how many threads DRGIII had going on at once. It did mean that there was a lot of exposition for the first half of the book. But that was okay. It was good to get reacquainted with everyone. And then the summit happened and the Bajoran Sector was opened up and that was awesome and we were moving again. Political manipulations and machinations aside, it was so fitting to have DS9 be the crossroads of the galaxy again. Everybody comes to Quark's, literally. (Well, except for the Kinshaya, Tzenkethi and the Tholians.)

Surprisingly (to me), I enjoyed the Prynn storyline. I actually found her scene with Vedek Kira, where she asks for there to be a religious service of some sort for Vaughn to be very touching, possibly one of the most moving things I've read in a Trek novel actually. Not sure why it had the effect on me, but it felt very real and heartfelt. At one point, I was actually expecting Vaughn's death scene to be the ending of this book, but obviously, that did not happen. I'm betting on that scene being the epilogue to Raise the Dawn.

Really liked the fleshing out of the new Sisko, and the evolution of his relationship with Rebecca and Kasidy. Wish we had seen Jake a bit. Loved Rebecca playing with starship models, and was glad to see Sisko getting friendly with Rogeiro (who has an awesome first name, by the way).

Was glad to see Picard again and to see that Geordi had been promoted, sorta. Wish Geordi had remained a captain, but it's not a big deal. It was nice to see the Enterprise again without a huge focus on T'Ryssa Chen. I love her, think she's a great character, but I feel like we've gotten a lot of her, at the expense of characters like Elfiki (who could just be another dedicated Starfleet officer for all we've seen of her) and Hegol Den (who sounds very interesting). I do wish we could have seen more of the TNG crew interacting with everyone else, but there is still RtD, and then a bunch of stuff this summer of course.

I liked the new DS9 crew, especially the interactions between Ro, Prynn and Chao. Cenn I find less interesting, and not as fleshed out. Blackmer I'm still on the fence about. I think I would have found him more interesting if

Spoiler: Does this count as a story idea?

he had had some sort of mild anxiety problem that he normally has under control, but sometimes lets get out of hand. For example, when we first meet him, he's clearly obsessing over inspecting the fusion core.

As it is now, he still clearly has some issues somewhere (or at least an interesting story), but it wasn't quite there for me.

The ending was great. Can't wait to see how it is resolved.

Other stuff I liked:
-Kamemor
-no Ezri!!!
-the depiction of dissent within the Typhon Pact
-Cardassian military officers on DS9 and the Enterprise; totally awesome
-Ferengi Treasury Guard officers in the same capacities, though we don't actually see them
-Martok's entrance to the summit
-(almost?) no follow-up on the dreadful Seize the Fire
-Enterprise and Robinson in the GQ, on general principle
-DRGIII faking us out, making us think Picard has become captain of a freighter full time
-foreshadowing very explicitly the end of the book half way through
-the Benny Russell side trip (though in a good way)

Stuff I was less keen on (though not necessarily disliked) included:

-the Trok storyline. It honestly just felt like we were always coming back to this. I liked how it was executed, it kept being interesting, but it just felt like it took forever. I do hope the Laas story gets resolved next book, and that Odo shows up.
-Sela. This was hands-down my least favorite aspect of the book. Tomalak was interesting, at least, because he was portrayed as dim (although tbh, I'm not quite sure where this came from; otoh, it's been a while since I saw the TNG ep's with him), but Sela was just "Destroy the Federation for Romulus, destroy for Federation for Romulus! Destroy the Federation! For Romulus!". Okay, maybe I exaggerate just a little, but, as others have said, she seemed one-dimensional and uninteresting. She was alright, not great, in Indistinguishable from Magic, but honestly, I would have been okay if the novelverse had had her assassinated during the Dominion War, or by Shinzon or something. (Hell, coulda been a Denise Crosby cameo in NEM.)
-Sarina, particularly as a security officer. I'm sure this is building to something in the next book, but I find it odd that someone with her skills would be *just* another security officer and no one would bat an eye. I didn't dislike this so much as I wish there was more explanation and more Bashir featured. Somehow. That said, you can't have everything.
-Vedek Kira has not been sold to me yet. I like the idea, but I really think we need to see what happened with the Ascendents and stuff to understand it fully. I'm happy to go along with it, I'm just not sold.

But that's basically it. I loved the scope of this novel. And it felt different. It felt leaner, the way I feel like a Star Trek TV series would feel if it were produced today. But it didn't feel like it was dark in a pandering sort of way. As the Preacher put it, "And in Their words, Hope and Despair walk arm in arm." Very well balanced.

Sort of nitpicky, but regarding an important detail: in RBoE, Sisko is chosen to go on point with the Romulans because of the Vreenak Incident and his work with them during the Dominion War, but also because he was a Lieutenant JG on the Federation embassy on Romulus for a while. And that part of his service record is kind of played up a bit to justify his taking that assignment.

But Sisko being a LTJG on Romulus seems to be a problem, because the Romulans were in isolation until 2364. Maybe it's just the way I read the dialogue in "The Neutral Zone," but it sounds like the Romulans were completely isolated, as in, no diplomatic ties, which would make a Federation embassy hard to swing. (I know Garak is firmly established as having been a gardener on Romulus during their isolation, but I could see the Romulans having relations with the Cardassian Union while still giving the UFP a cold shoulder.) In theory, Sisko could have been at the embassy as soon as it (presumably) opened in 2364, but, from what I can gather from his Memory Beta page, he was already a LT in 2360 (Catalyst of Sorrows), and going to Romulus in 2364 would interrupt his XO time on the Okinawa.

I suppose it's possible he did a few months on Romulus as a LTCDR between the Okinawa and the Saratoga, but he definitely would not have been a "junior officer" the way it's described in RBoE.

Has anyone else noticed this and thought of a way to explain it? Maybe I'm overreading the isolation thing, but it seems pretty stark in "TNZ"...

EDIT: Could Sisko's time as a "junior officer at the Federation embassy on Romulus" be a euphemism for the

Spoiler: mild spoiler for CoS

undercover work in the RSE

he did in Catalyst of Sorrows? I've never read it, so pardon me if it's a dumb question.

 

[RonG]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^Again, the Typhon Pact isn't an "arc," it's just the new status quo. It's like the Klingons and Romulans being around in TOS, or the Romulans and Cardassians being around in TNG. There wasn't any endgame for those political relationships.

I'm sure you're right Christopher, however when presented as a title, Star Trek Typhon Pact implies IMO some sort of contained narrative (whether mini series, close ended series etc), otherwise why bother with a new title and not have the TP an ongoing presence in the currently-ongoing novel series?

Because Pocket Books has a history of doing Star Trek series that are thematically linked rather than ones that present a single narrative.

Star Trek: Section 31 did not tell a single, unified narrative. Neither did Star Trek: The Lost Era, or The Captain's Table, or Invasion!, or Worlds of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Day of Honor.

Obviously, they've done plenty of novel series that did tell a single story -- Destiny, Gateways, Terok Nor, etc. But it's never been automatically the case.

Like Christopher said, there is no Typhon Pact arc -- anymore than there was, say, a Cold War arc to James Bond or John le Carré novels. The Typhon Pact is the new status quo, not the new problem to be solved.

Because Pocket Books has a history of doing Star Trek series that are thematically linked rather than ones that present a single narrative.

Star Trek: Section 31 did not tell a single, unified narrative. Neither did Star Trek: The Lost Era, or The Captain's Table, or Invasion!, or Worlds of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Day of Honor.

Obviously, they've done plenty of novel series that did tell a single story -- Destiny, Gateways, Terok Nor, etc. But it's never been automatically the case.

Like Christopher said, there is no Typhon Pact arc -- anymore than there was, say, a Cold War arc to James Bond or John le Carré novels. The Typhon Pact is the new status quo, not the new problem to be solved.

By all indications, the TP novels tell a unified (though understandably large in scope) narrative - the TP novels are happening in a (more or less) chronological order, with plotlines spanning several novels. Further, there are no non-TP-related novels from the participating series

I really don't think this assertion bears much scrutiny.

Now, obviously Plagues of Night is touching on or advancing plot points from previous Typhon Pact novels. But the other TYP stories -- I'm using "TYP" as my abbreviation, both to fit with the standard three-letter abbreviation and because "TP" always makes me think of toilet paper.... -- were not interconnecting in any meaningful sense. Zero Sum Game was a self-contained DS9 novel that left the door open for continued Bashir/Serena stories, but which had seemingly resolved the quantum slipstream arc. Seize the Fire was a self-contained story that hasn't been followed up on at all. Rough Beasts of Empire was a DS9/TOS novel with its own self-contained narrative about the fall and rise of the Romulan government. Paths of Disharmony was a TNG novel that advanced an arc from the DS9 Relaunch and hinted at events from Star Trek: Vanguard. The Struggle Within was an episodic TNG novella that hasn't been followed up on at all.

Meanwhile, one of the key political developments from the TYP series, Andor's secession, is apparently going to be more followed up on in the next TTN novel, Fallen Gods, than it will in an actual TYP novel.

Even if that's not the intent, the novels from 2009 onward dealing with the TP tell an arc of sorts,

Not really. The only "broad" TYP arc you could construct would be "The Typhon Pact tries to gain a quantum slipstream drive," and that arc only applies to Zero Sum Game, Plagues of Night, and Raise the Dawn. There hasn't been a single story (with an introduction, a rising action, a climax, and a resolution) to TYP apart from that, and that doesn't apply to four out of seven novels.

^Again, the Typhon Pact isn't an "arc," it's just the new status quo. It's like the Klingons and Romulans being around in TOS, or the Romulans and Cardassians being around in TNG. There wasn't any endgame for those political relationships.

I'm sure you're right Christopher, however when presented as a title, Star Trek Typhon Pact implies IMO some sort of contained narrative (whether mini series, close ended series etc), otherwise why bother with a new title and not have the TP an ongoing presence in the currently-ongoing novel series?

It's mainly a sales/marketing decision. Destiny sold well, so they wanted another big branded crossover event. That event,Typhon Pact, sold well, so they wanted to do more of it. And it's because it is open-ended that it's so easy to do more of it.

Also, while the Aliens in TOS, TNG and VOY were a part of the status quo (though something can be said in regards to the Klingon/Worf "arc" on TNG), DS9 did have a resolution-of-sorts to various plotlines regarding Cardassians, Bajorans and especially the Dominion.

Eventually, after seven years, and the former two continue to play a role in subsequent novels.

Sci, Christopher - I completely get what you're saying, and story-wise I accept your argument(s).

I guess that what's bothering me is the marketing aspect - branding novels about the various series under the Typhon Pact banner - and not all of them at that - for example, what diffrentiates Fallen Gods from Seize the Fire?

If TPTB had used the Typhon Pact branding (or another branding that could include VOY) to indicate the post-Destiny timeframe (as this is what seems to be the case), I wouldn't have any problem with it - what we're getting is (IMO) a marketing "ploy" without much input / regard to the actual ongoing narrative.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Sort of nitpicky, but regarding an important detail: in RBoE, Sisko is chosen to go on point with the Romulans because of the Vreenak Incident and his work with them during the Dominion War, but also because he was a Lieutenant JG on the Federation embassy on Romulus for a while. And that part of his service record is kind of played up a bit to justify his taking that assignment.

But Sisko being a LTJG on Romulus seems to be a problem, because the Romulans were in isolation until 2364. Maybe it's just the way I read the dialogue in "The Neutral Zone," but it sounds like the Romulans were completely isolated, as in, no diplomatic ties, which would make a Federation embassy hard to swing. (I know Garak is firmly established as having been a gardener on Romulus during their isolation, but I could see the Romulans having relations with the Cardassian Union while still giving the UFP a cold shoulder.) In theory, Sisko could have been at the embassy as soon as it (presumably) opened in 2364, but, from what I can gather from his Memory Beta page, he was already a LT in 2360 (Catalyst of Sorrows), and going to Romulus in 2364 would interrupt his XO time on the Okinawa.

In a scene from "The Wire"--apparently cut, though I seem to remember it--Sisko talked about his time on Romulus at a LTJG.

When I was your age, I was assigned
to the Federation embassy on Romulus.
One of our Romulan kitchen staff, a
man named Stolpan, got arrested by
the Tal Shiar for political
improprieties. Somehow I got the
foolish idea that I could go into
Tal Shiar Headquarters and convince
them to set him free.
(shakes his head at
his own foolishness)
Curzon took me aside and said the
same thing I'm about to say to you...
(heartfelt)
You won't do Garak or yourself any
good if you're rotting in some
Cardassian prison. Now I want you
to promise me, that at the first
sign of trouble, you'll forget about
Garak and get the hell out of there.

I imagine that Federation relations with Romulus in this timeframe would have been distant, at very best, and uninformative. Having one line of connection open, even if intermittently--who says the embassy has to have been open throughout the period of isolation?--would have been possible.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I guess that what's bothering me is the marketing aspect - branding novels about the various series under the Typhon Pact banner - and not all of them at that - for example, what diffrentiates Fallen Gods from Seize the Fire?

Well, although FG is about the aftermath of events in the TP novels, it doesn't sound from the description as if members of the Pact itself play any direct role in the novel. So it's not an actual Typhon Pact novel any more than, say, The Wrath of Khan is a Vanguard movie.

If TPTB had used the Typhon Pact branding (or another branding that could include VOY) to indicate the post-Destiny timeframe (as this is what seems to be the case), I wouldn't have any problem with it - what we're getting is (IMO) a marketing "ploy" without much input / regard to the actual ongoing narrative.

But that is not the case. There are plenty of novels in the post-Destiny timeframe that don't have the TP branding: A Singular Destiny, Losing the Peace, the entire Voyager series from Full Circle onward, Over a Torrent Sea, Synthesis, Fallen Gods, the two DTI novels, Indistinguishable from Magic, the upcoming TNG: Cold Equations trilogy, and the upcoming TNG e-novella The Stuff of Dreams. In fact, there are twice as many extant or upcoming post-Destiny tales without the TP label (16) as there are with it (8).

So it's bizarrely counterfactual to claim that the TP branding is being used for the post-DES timeframe in general. On the contrary, it's used only for books that are actually about the Typhon Pact. It really is as simple as that.

 

[zarkon]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

If TPTB had used the Typhon Pact branding (or another branding that could include VOY) to indicate the post-Destiny timeframe (as this is what seems to be the case), I wouldn't have any problem with it - what we're getting is (IMO) a marketing "ploy" without much input / regard to the actual ongoing narrative.

But that is not the case. There are plenty of novels in the post-Destiny timeframe that don't have the TP branding: A Singular Destiny, Losing the Peace, the entire Voyager series from Full Circle onward, Over a Torrent Sea, Synthesis, Fallen Gods, the two DTI novels, Indistinguishable from Magic, the upcoming TNG: Cold Equations trilogy, and the upcoming TNG e-novella The Stuff of Dreams. In fact, there are twice as many extant or upcoming post-Destiny tales without the TP label (16) as there are with it (8).

So it's bizarrely counterfactual to claim that the TP branding is being used for the post-DES timeframe in general. On the contrary, it's used only for books that are actually about the Typhon Pact. It really is as simple as that.

I think he's saying they should all be branded in some form, not that they are.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^No, he said it "seems to be the case" that they are branded that way, and that's just not true. Only books that feature the Typhon Pact or at least one of its members in a key role have the Typhon Pact label.

 

[zarkon]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Yes, you're quite right.

 

[RonG]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

One must know when one's argument has been lost..
oh well so what about that DRGIII duology, eh?

 

[GalaxyClass1701]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Isn't most of Empok Nor still orbiting a Bajoran Moon?

 

[DS9forever]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^ As of Abyss, yes.

 

[GalaxyClass1701]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^ As of Abyss, yes.

So maybe they could just slap that into place and build a new core?

 

[Christopher]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^No, the station's current core was originally Empok Nor's core. Terok Nor's reactor core was jettisoned in Avatar, and in SCE: Cold Fusion and Abyss, they brought Empok Nor to the Bajoran system so that they could do a core transplant. So if the replacement reactor core is now gone, they're fresh outta cores. Unless there are some other abandoned Nor-class stations lying around somewhere.

 

[GalaxyClass1701]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^No, the station's current core was originally Empok Nor's core. Terok Nor's reactor core was jettisoned in Avatar, and in SCE: Cold Fusion and Abyss, they brought Empok Nor to the Bajoran system so that they could do a core transplant. So if the replacement reactor core is now gone, they're fresh outta cores. Unless there are some other abandoned Nor-class stations lying around somewhere.

I understand that but most of the station is intact wouldn't it be easier to build just a core than an entire station from scratch?

 

[shanejayell]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

It's interesting how much the book slags Terok Nor, really. *lol* Prynn disses it, Picard disses it, the Militia guy disses it.... doesn't anybody like the poor station?

 

[Christopher]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

It's interesting how much the book slags Terok Nor, really. *lol* Prynn disses it, Picard disses it, the Militia guy disses it.... doesn't anybody like the poor station?

Well, that was always kind of the idea behind DS9 -- that it was an oppressive, alien environment that was uncomfortable for the Starfleet characters to be in and difficult to adjust to.

 

[Sci]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

It's interesting how much the book slags Terok Nor, really. *lol* Prynn disses it, Picard disses it, the Militia guy disses it.... doesn't anybody like the poor station?

Well, that was always kind of the idea behind DS9 -- that it was an oppressive, alien environment that was uncomfortable for the Starfleet characters to be in and difficult to adjust to.

Which is ironic, as I often found the DS9 sets quite cozy-lookin'.

But Cenn has had a longstanding dislike of the Terok Nor design, going all the way back to his first appearance in Worlds of Deep Space Nine.

 

[shanejayell]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

It's not bad but it DOES feel a bit like a heavy handed foreshadowing... well, depending on how the next book goes. *lol*

 

[Christopher]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

But Cenn has had a longstanding dislike of the Terok Nor design, going all the way back to his first appearance in Worlds of Deep Space Nine.

Which is understandable for a Bajoran who grew up with it orbiting overhead as a constant symbol of Cardassian oppression.

 

[Ronald Held]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

If DS9 needs cores, why not buy them from Cardassia?

 

[shanejayell]

Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Can they even build them, though? Most of Cardassia's manufacturing ability was totalled in the final battle of the Dominion war. They couldn't even repair their ships after the war....

I suppose there MIGHT be other similar stations out there, though. Were Empok Nor/Terok Nor type stations commonly built?