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Spoilers TOS: The Face of the Unknown by Christopher L. Bennett Review Thread

Rate The Face of the Unknown

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I would just default to wanting another Post TMP story by Christopher, though all your critiques of what that would mean for the story do stand. Like I said I'm only 1/3 finished though.
 
Just curious as to what you think that would have changed or added. Personally don't see how it would have been much different. You'd have had a somewhat colder Spock and would have skipped that emotional insight/bonding/romance angle (depending on how post-TMP, I guess)

You need to rewatch TMP, I think. Spock was only colder at the start of the movie; by the end, he'd had the epiphany that logic without emotion was insufficient, and he'd finally begun to reconcile the two and become the more open, relaxed, self-assured Spock that he was from TWOK onward. My first novel, Ex Machina, was largely about exploring how Spock came to terms with that epiphany in the immediate wake of TMP.

But you're right that I would've had to do something substantially different with Spock and Nisu, especially if it came after the events of Forgotten History. He'd be in a very different place psychologically at that point, in terms of relationships and such.


, some continuity-dropping would have been different (Chekov wouldn't be about to go to Security training, no Arex or M'Ress at the end), and picture on the front cover would be different. How else does the timeframe even play into the story?

Well, a post-TMP timeframe would've let me carry forward some of the supporting-character threads of Ex Machina, The Darkness Drops Again, and Forgotten History, and this would've been the second full novel in that sequence rather than a standalone 5YM novel. My original plan included a subplot with the Betelgeusian crewmember Uuvu'it and his interaction with the similarly predatory Dassik, perhaps leading to a significant development in his story arc; instead, I could only indirectly link to that by using the 'Geusians at the start and give a nod to the beginnings of the exchange program that led to Uuvu'it joining Starfleet a few years later. (I considered including a younger Uuvu'it and showing how he first met Sulu and the others, but I figured it would've been too Dickensian a coincidence.)


You'd have an older, more mature ambassador, but then it's somewhat more troubling that he's made no progress in 20 years or whatever. In 3 years, it's explainable as the culture being cautious, his needing experience/tempering, etc. If he was still there and not making progress after 20 years, he'd be a dejected joke at best, or have long since been replaced in reality. Timeframe was about right for a follow-up, allowing the situation to breathe but not get too stale in-universe.

It probably would've been more like 7-10 years, but yes, I would've probably had to approach Bailey's role in the story rather differently. In hindsight, though, it probably works best where it is in the timeline.
 
Just bought the kindle edition based on the recommendations on this thread. I am a ST ENT and ST DS9 novels fan but there are some good TOS novels out there (my favs- Vulcans' glory, Vulcan Academy murders, Devil's bargain, Federation, Prime Directive, Spock's World, The Lost years, and Sarek).
 
You'd have had a somewhat colder Spock and would have skipped that emotional insight/bonding/romance angle (depending on how post-TMP, I guess)

Not sure what you mean by this? Christopher's post-TMP stuff very much includes Spock embracing his realizations about the need for balance between logic and emotion after his V'Ger contact; it was a huge part of Ex Machina. His presentation of Spock is almost a rebuttal to how other works have presented the post-TMP Spock as colder in direct contrast to his character arc in the movie itself.

Edit: Whoops, didn't notice there was another page. :p
 
His presentation of Spock is almost a rebuttal to how other works have presented the post-TMP Spock as colder in direct contrast to his character arc in the movie itself.

I think the only book that actually showed Spock growing colder post-TMP was The Prometheus Design by Sondra Marshak & Myrna Culbreath -- which was pretty much the only book before Ex Machina that really tried to follow up on the ideas of TMP at all, even if it inexplicably did so by aggressively reversing Spock's growth therein. Most other post-TMP novels pretty much ignored the issue and wrote Spock more or less indistinguishably from his TOS characterization.
 
I think the only book that actually showed Spock growing colder post-TMP was The Prometheus Design by Sondra Marshak & Myrna Culbreath -- which was pretty much the only book before Ex Machina that really tried to follow up on the ideas of TMP at all, even if it inexplicably did so by aggressively reversing Spock's growth therein. Most other post-TMP novels pretty much ignored the issue and wrote Spock more or less indistinguishably from his TOS characterization.

Mm, fair; I had this impression that it was a common presentation for him post-TMP, but now that I think about it, I can't think where I got that impression from in the first place.
 
Part of the reason I wanted to write Ex Machina in the first place was because nobody else had ever tried to follow up on Spock's epiphany at all, and I felt that was an oversight. The only book that even acknowledged it was the one that reversed it, The Prometheus Design.
 
Makes me wonder why the Prometheus design writers turned Spock into 'Kolinaru of the year' mode...
I can see why other writers ignored following up TMP since the STWOK comes across as another reset of TOS.
 
Makes me wonder why the Prometheus design writers turned Spock into 'Kolinaru of the year' mode...

Marshak & Culbreath had their own... idiosyncratic take on Kirk and Spock as characters. Maybe they felt that TMP ran counter to how they wanted to see Spock and so they chose to tell a story that refuted it so that they could keep writing Spock their own way.

I can see why other writers ignored following up TMP since the STWOK comes across as another reset of TOS.

Well, aside from M&C's Prometheus Design and Triangle, Howard Weinstein's The Covenant of the Crown was also written pre-TWOK and set post-TMP. It doesn't directly acknowledge TMP's events either, just uses trappings of the setting like the supporting characters' new titles (Dr. Chapel, Lt. Chekov, etc.) -- although it presages TWOK by having McCoy preoccupied with feeling old.

By the way, has anyone caught the Covenant of the Crown nod I worked into The Face of the Unknown?
 
I did! :bolian: But I'm always on the look out for stuff like that. I'll be adding CotC to my list of books referenced by the Litverse soon.
 
Spock's strict following of the Vulcan way was the only thing keeping him out of Kirk's arms in Marshak and Culbreath's universe, and an emotional Spock would've just dived into bed with Kirk and ruined all the tension. Hence his being so extra Vulcan in their works.
 
Spock's strict following of the Vulcan way was the only thing keeping him out of Kirk's arms in Marshak and Culbreath's universe, and an emotional Spock would've just dived into bed with Kirk and ruined all the tension. Hence his being so extra Vulcan in their works.

Although their definition of "extra-Vulcan" doesn't exactly match up with anyone else's. You'd think it'd be utterly logical and emotionless, like Spock aspired to with Kolinahr, but it was more like utterly ruthless and cruel, more Romulan than Vulcan.
 
I have never been able to decided if the Marshak and Culbreath stuff could be interesting since it's such an.... idiosyncratic take on Trek, or if it sounds so strange that I want just stay as far away from it as possible.
 
By the way, has anyone caught the Covenant of the Crown nod I worked into The Face of the Unknown?
I did too, yeah, and when I updated the "References" section over on Memory Beta for the novel early this week, I included it. Was "Ren'xaan of Arkoni" an original creation of yours (aside from the ENT-related species backstory)?
 
Although their definition of "extra-Vulcan" doesn't exactly match up with anyone else's. You'd think it'd be utterly logical and emotionless, like Spock aspired to with Kolinahr, but it was more like utterly ruthless and cruel, more Romulan than Vulcan.
Sounds like their Spock/Kirk is set in a Mirror universe where the Enterprise is the Love boat starring Captain Kirk and his Vulcan wanna be lover Spock :lol: Or they channelled Spocks' inner T'Pau.
 
Yeah. I couldn't find a good candidate for a third early mission of Kirk's that involved a mentor figure, so I just made something up.
I quite like seeing these new, never-before-seen backstory-tidbits that imply a much larger history, similar to showing the exploits of other Starfleet crews and demonstrating that the Enterprise isn't the only starship out there that is out there accomplishing things during this time period.

Sounds like their Spock/Kirk is set in a Mirror universe where the Enterprise is the Love boat starring Captain Kirk and his Vulcan wanna be lover Spock :lol: Or they channelled Spocks' inner T'Pau.
Ah, that's nothing. You should check out the first edition of the TOS novel Killing Time...
 
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Marshak & Culbreath had their own... idiosyncratic take on Kirk and Spock as characters. Maybe they felt that TMP ran counter to how they wanted to see Spock and so they chose to tell a story that refuted it so that they could keep writing Spock their own way.



Well, aside from M&C's Prometheus Design and Triangle, Howard Weinstein's The Covenant of the Crown was also written pre-TWOK and set post-TMP. It doesn't directly acknowledge TMP's events either, just uses trappings of the setting like the supporting characters' new titles (Dr. Chapel, Lt. Chekov, etc.) -- although it presages TWOK by having McCoy preoccupied with feeling old.

By the way, has anyone caught the Covenant of the Crown nod I worked into The Face of the Unknown?

I read an interview with Howard Weinstein some years ago where he talked about his take on Spock in Covenant. Basically, he wrote the Spock we've been talking about -- more in touch with his emotions, no longer judgmental about humans, et cetera. He didn't call too much attention to it in the text because at that time, no one knew what Paramount's plans for the character were (including Paramount, come to that), but he wrote the Spock that he figured would have emerged from the V'Ger mindmeld. I'm a huge fan of Spock's character growth--it's one of the main reasons I revere The Motion Picture--and that's probably why Covenant, along with Ex Machina, is one of my favorite post-TMP novels.
 
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