TOS-R question...

[RAMA]

Lovely shot and agreed on so many of the mattes.

This was a bit of a departure that I'm still on the fence about from Dagger of the Mind

And this one from Mudd's Women is very reminiscent to me of TNG's Coming of Age, though not in the best way.

And Coming of Age was a recycled Buck Rogers matte circa 1979. I'd like a new matte for the STNG-R.

I like the Dagger one...it always seemed to me that it was an underground structure with limited access, and very secretive. This is conveyed by the new matte.

The Mudd one is a nice extrapolation of a small practical set.

This shot looked way too modern for me. Reminds me of Batman Begins where the League of Shadows was located.

Really??

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

It actually never claims it's low poly at all. The lack of overall detail (again, despite having more details than the physical model) was deliberate. Of course the article is just opinion, just like yours and mine, and I'm fine with it being different. I'm only mentioning the TOS-R when I think it improves the story and that's what I'm sticking to. So I am not going to bother continuing this particular issue on this thread.

RAMA

I didn't say "low poly", I said "low quality". How can you know that the lack of detail (detail that was present and visible on the physical model, mind you) was a deliberate decision? Do you have a link to an interview? All I can go by is what I see with my own eyes, absent any other information.

I see more detail on the new cgi model...hints, though not fully there of some of the plating and detail of the later designs without actually being fully realized. As far as i can tell, the old model looked like it was cut out in one piece out of wood...that's how little detail it has.

http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=8656

The intention was to make the ships look like they were executed in the 60s with the contemporary capabilites. The very fact they weren't rendered as if they came out of Enterprise demonstrates they have a different sensibility. This has been stated many times in interviews, I doubt you'd have any trouble finding them.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

To the OP, this shows a few examples of the differences in the aspect ratio, and how they were expanded.

http://maxgabl.com/Content/TOS-R_Paintings.html

 

[evilnate]

It actually never claims it's low poly at all. The lack of overall detail (again, despite having more details than the physical model) was deliberate. Of course the article is just opinion, just like yours and mine, and I'm fine with it being different. I'm only mentioning the TOS-R when I think it improves the story and that's what I'm sticking to. So I am not going to bother continuing this particular issue on this thread.

RAMA

I didn't say "low poly", I said "low quality". How can you know that the lack of detail (detail that was present and visible on the physical model, mind you) was a deliberate decision? Do you have a link to an interview? All I can go by is what I see with my own eyes, absent any other information.

I see more detail on the new cgi model...hints, though not fully there of some of the plating and detail of the later designs without actually being fully realized. As far as i can tell, the old model looked like it was cut out in one piece out of wood...that's how little detail it has.

http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=8656

The intention was to make the ships look like they were executed in the 60s with the contemporary capabilites. The very fact they weren't rendered as if they came out of Enterprise demonstrates they have a different sensibility. This has been stated many times in interviews, I doubt you'd have any trouble finding them.

RAMA

I know what their intention was. The point I'm trying to make is that if they can't even add the detail that was on a model made in the 60s, that as you pointed out was probably carved out of a single block of wood, then they failed.

I happen to like a great deal of what they did in TOS-R. "The Corbomite Manuever" was a triumph in my opinion. However, they, like any other production fall flat in areas, and this was one of those areas. The D-7 CGI model they used is objectively not as good as the original. That's not opinion, that's observable fact.

 

[Scrambo]

I like the remastered tos but as nice as they are in trying to introduce the show to a new generation & bringing it up-to-date.... in some episodes they have removed some scenes in order to focus on the cgi effects. ok they are small scenes that most wouldnt notice but why couldnt have they just made the episodes a little bit longer to include the cgi effects?

 

[Warped9]

I like the remastered tos but as nice as they are in trying to introduce the show to a new generation & bringing it up-to-date.... in some episodes they have removed some scenes in order to focus on the cgi effects. ok they are small scenes that most wouldnt notice but why couldnt have they just made the episodes a little bit longer to include the cgi effects?

Wait a minute! They actually excised live-action scenes to make room for new f/x?

Is this for real???

 

[Scrambo]

Yes its only small bits but i noticed it in balance of terror.

 

[evilnate]

I like the remastered tos but as nice as they are in trying to introduce the show to a new generation & bringing it up-to-date.... in some episodes they have removed some scenes in order to focus on the cgi effects. ok they are small scenes that most wouldnt notice but why couldnt have they just made the episodes a little bit longer to include the cgi effects?

Wait a minute! They actually excised live-action scenes to make room for new f/x?

Is this for real???

There is only one episode that I know of where they cut a live action scene for cgi. In "Amok Time", they cut a shot of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy walking to the ceremony area and replaced it with a long shot that did a good job tying the soundstage sets to the surrounding terrain. Within the scope of the TOS-R project, I didn't mind it, and no dialoge was lost. Outside of that there were a few instances where a live action shot would dissolve into an effects shot where they were forced to start the transition a few frames early. Not a big deal given that they would have had to completely reedit the episodes to avoid that, and that would have introduced the potential for other problems to creep in.

 

[Scrambo]

Its nothing big but if you are used to the original versions it kinda ruins it a tiny bit.

 

[Doug Otte]

Yes its only small bits but i noticed it in balance of terror.

I don't think they cut any full scenes (see evilnate's response above about replacing a shot).

However, I am bothered that, when a live shot fades to an effect, they had to fade it even sooner for the new effect. So, we are missing a couple of seconds of original footage here and there.

Doug

 

[evilnate]

Yes its only small bits but i noticed it in balance of terror.

I don't think they cut any full scenes (see evilnate's response above about replacing a shot).

However, I am bothered that, when a live shot fades to an effect, they had to fade it even sooner for the new effect. So, we are missing a couple of seconds of original footage here and there.

Doug

I don't even think it's that much. A few frames at most. The most obvious example that I can think of is in the pre-credits sequence of "The Doomsday Machine". In the original, the cross-fade starts right after Sulu's line, but in the TOS-R version it happens on Sulu's last word.

 

[Tallguy]

Working around fades and such is in the nature of the project. Scott Gammans ran into the same thing on his Doomsday project.

And I'll reiterate: They have continued to keep the originals available. So we haven't "lost" anything.

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

One of the more inventive matte painting extensions for TOS-R from Spock's Brain. Most of these types of enhancements were rather tastefully done and really do help to open up the planet exteriors in establishing shots

Question: Now, is this from the HD version (which kind of fell through) or is it form the Blue-Ray version. Are these remasters available in non-Blue-Ray? I'm still watching the old DVD's that came out in 2004 I think. I would really like to see these new ones but I don't have Blue-Ray and downloading them is a drag because I can't play them on my television (also it is illegal).

 

[Warped9]

^^ The thing is there that as nice as it seems to be I think the perspective is off. Or maybe it's the angle of elevation. When we see them beam down in the original we are more-or-less at eye level with the characters and yet here we see it as if we several feet off the ground or at least higher than eye level. The more I look at it the more it looks wrong.

 

[scotpens]

The thing is there that as nice as it seems to be I think the perspective is off. Or maybe it's the angle of elevation. When we see them beam down in the original we are more-or-less at eye level with the characters and yet here we see it as if we several feet off the ground or at least higher than eye level. The more I look at it the more it looks wrong.

Yes, the horizon of the added matte background is considerably higher than that of the original shot. That throws the perspective off and makes everything look a bit wonky.

The digitally-added planetscape in “By Any Other Name” has the same problem, although maybe not quite as noticeable because the figures of the landing party are smaller relative to the entire frame.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Did they add in the tree to the foreground of this shot? If so, that's really impressive.

 

[scotpens]

Did they add in the tree to the foreground of this shot? If so, that's really impressive.

I’m not sure if there’s camera movement in that scene so that the tree is merely out of frame in the first shot. I’d have to look at the episode again.

I do think they did a good job of adding foliage and additional structures in the background, and blending in the cityscape.