TOS fans. Was TNG's 'Relics' respectful or disrespectful of TOS?

[Kirk1980]

Yeah (and again, like another poster said, I'm sure Mike will correct me if I'm wrong!), another problem they had was..well, the way they made things back in the mid-60's was almost completely different almost thirty years later.

Like the carpet color was hard to recreate because of the different lighting techniques used on the original show.

And I'm sure the style of construction back then was so simple back then compared to now, it would probably have been absurdly difficult to reconstruct faithfully as it would look too...well, 1992 instead of 1966.

 

[Captain Robert April]

A big problem was that nobody knew where the original construction blueprints were, so there was a lot of guesswork involved.

 

[Kryton]

Um, there was NO carpet on the set of the original TOS bridge. In fact, it was years later when they carpeted the set of the -D that they'd suddenly realized they would have saved themselves a ton of audio looping efforts if only they'd done it back in the '60s.

 

[RAMA]

Relics was awesome! They brought back Scotty in a BIG way, and I mean Dyson Sphere big! True to STNG's more mature drama, Scotty has an issue, its dealt with as best as possible and he moves on with his life after doubting his usefulness. Even icons have doubt. I rate it 9.5 out of 10!

RAMA

 

[Captain Robert April]

Um, there was NO carpet on the set of the original TOS bridge. In fact, it was years later when they carpeted the set of the -D that they'd suddenly realized they would have saved themselves a ton of audio looping efforts if only they'd done it back in the '60s.

Um, sorry to burst your bubble, but there was carpeting on the bridge. A gray indoor/outdoor type, to be specific.

The original pilot bridge didn't have any carpeting, and they did have to do a lot of looping, so when they remodeled it for the series, they added carpeting to the upper level. For the third season, they also added a patch of carpeting to the pedestal of the command chair.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's hard for me to believe that Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhura, Scotty, etc., would not be revered and celebrated by the entire Federation.

Yeah, it's that kind of attitude that turned TOS-based stories into such fucking bores. Just one more reason to find Abrams's reboot of TOS a cause for hope for "Star Trek's" future.

So, Geordi was impatient with Scotty. Damn, a series regular behaving in a pissy and self-centered manner. If the writers started letting that happen more regularly, sooner or later they'd turn Trek back into entertainment.

 

[A beaker full of death]

True to STNG's more mature drama, Scotty has an issue, its dealt with as best as possible and he moves on with his life after doubting his usefulness.

You consider that facile, unsophisticated after-school-special crap "mature" ?

 

[Kirk1980]

It's hard for me to believe that Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhura, Scotty, etc., would not be revered and celebrated by the entire Federation.

Yeah, it's that kind of attitude that turned TOS-based stories into such fucking bores. Just one more reason to find Abrams's reboot of TOS a cause for hope for "Star Trek's" future.

So, Geordi was impatient with Scotty. Damn, a series regular behaving in a pissy and self-centered manner. If the writers started letting that happen more regularly, sooner or later they'd turn Trek back into entertainment.

.....What on earth are you talking about? What stories were bores?

 

[Captain Robert April]

Might be easier to ask which stories he didn't find bores.

 

[Ward Fowler]

^

 

[Too Much Fun]

I know people frown upon resurrecting old threads, but I don't like to start a new one when there's already a thread discussing something I want to talk about (even if it's old). I've been re-watching TNG over the past few months, and as I was just watching "Relics", a new thought occurred to me. James Doohan's performance was award-worthy. Maybe not so much from a pure acting standpoint or for originality or intensity, but just for how beautifully he played the character.

Traditionally the Emmy awarding has often been very unimaginative or lazy and prone to snubbing people and shows who deserve to win out of snootiness. This explains how less 'prestigious' genre shows like a Star Trek series or "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" almost never get nominated for anything other than make-up, sound, costume, hair, and special effects awards. I think TNG's season seven only got a best drama series nomination out of respect for it lasting that long, not the quality of the season (I bet the people who voted didn't even watch it), since it was overall much weaker than seasons 3-5.

They also give awards to unworthy performances like Jon Cryer, just because he's on a popular show, but once in awhile they've thought outside the box, and seemed to recognize actors doing more unorthodox work. For example, Shatner winning for "Boston Legal" and Frank Gorshin being nominated for "Batman" in the '60s (he totally should have won).

I wish some of that out of the box thinking had been happening when this episode aired in 1992. I think it is the best written and best performed Scotty appearance I've ever seen. Doohan is just marvelous in his scene with Picard on the holodeck with those poignant words about starships and women, and so endearing chatting with Data in ten forward. Watching the episode, I was sure there's no way any guest star gave a more memorably touching performance that year. I looked it up and Laurence Fishburne won that year. I guarantee you it was because he was more high profile and 'hotter' at the time (he'd just done "Boyz in the Hood"). I don't have to watch the episode. Scotty was robbed, I tell you!

To get more on the topic of this thread, I think Ron Moore should be commended for writing such a great script for Doohan to be a part of. The most obvious proof to me of how much he loved the original series is all of Scotty's references to its episodes as he irritates people by rambling too much about them.

It was completely understandable why his rambling made others uncomfortable and even made Geordi lose his temper as people were too busy to indulge his reminiscing. I didn't think it was disrespectful to the character at all. He was simply awkward and lonely, which caused him to unintentionally impose on others, and I think that would be inevitable after trying to re-enter society following 75 years of absence. It was a very realistic rendering of how one might interact with others in such a situation.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

True to STNG's more mature drama, Scotty has an issue, its dealt with as best as possible and he moves on with his life after doubting his usefulness.

The Next Generation, unfortunately, was not a sophisticated, mature drama when compared to other shows on at the time, such as Hill Street Blues or L.A. Law. It's storytelling was painfully stuck in the late 60s to early 80s vain of one-hour dramas.

Star Trek (the original) in its early first-season was a mature, naturalistic adult drama — billed as television's first "adult space adventure." And was on par with other dramas of the early 60s, such as Mission: Impossible and I: Spy. Of course, as the seasons wore on, like those two examples, the storytelling became much more adventure-based, losing the subtlety of the early seasons.

I: Spy is the perfect example of a show that changed quickly in its first year — compare the excellent first-season episode "The Loser" with Eartha Kitt to "There was a Little Girl". Both episodes dealt with heroin and addiction, but "The Loser" was more subtle and naturalistic in its portrayal of addiction.

However, TNG was never really subtle, nor did it treat its characters with any naturalism. "Relics", as pointed out by Dennis, finally showed one of the TNG characters acting like a pissy, moody human being. Had that been done more often, then TNG would've been a far more interesting series.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Yeah, it's that kind of attitude that turned TOS-based stories into such fucking bores. Just one more reason to find Abrams's reboot of TOS a cause for hope for "Star Trek's" future.

Funny how Dennis didn't like the "Kirk save the uiverse and is hailed as a hero" aspects of TOS but he loved it in IX with a much younger Kirk.

 

[Noname Given]

I thought they treated the Montgomery Scott character terribly; and it further highlighted just how much of a 24th century 'brown-nose' LaForge actually was. (imo)

 

[Too Much Fun]

How? The cold shoulder he got from LaForge and other characters at the beginning was totally understandable because they were busy and he kept trying to talk their ears off with his stories.

Then, by the end, LaForge begrudgingly begins to respect him when having to work with Scotty makes him realize how sweet, creative, and wise he is as the two of them plausibly start to relate and bond. I saw no poor treatment of the character or brown nosing. Just what behaviour did you interpret that way?

 

[Dusty Ayres]

I know people frown upon resurrecting old threads, but I don't like to start a new one when there's already a thread discussing something I want to talk about (even if it's old). I've been re-watching TNG over the past few months, and as I was just watching "Relics", a new thought occurred to me. James Doohan's performance was award-worthy. Maybe not so much from a pure acting standpoint or for originality or intensity, but just for how beautifully he played the character.

Traditionally the Emmy awarding has often been very unimaginative or lazy and prone to snubbing people and shows who deserve to win out of snootiness. This explains how less 'prestigious' genre shows like a Star Trek series or "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" almost never get nominated for anything other than make-up, sound, costume, hair, and special effects awards. I think TNG's season seven only got a best drama series nomination out of respect for it lasting that long, not the quality of the season (I bet the people who voted didn't even watch it), since it was overall much weaker than seasons 3-5.

They also give awards to unworthy performances like Jon Cryer, just because he's on a popular show, but once in awhile they've thought outside the box, and seemed to recognize actors doing more unorthodox work. For example, Shatner winning for "Boston Legal" and Frank Gorshin being nominated for "Batman" in the '60s (he totally should have won).

I wish some of that out of the box thinking had been happening when this episode aired in 1992. I think it is the best written and best performed Scotty appearance I've ever seen. Doohan is just marvelous in his scene with Picard on the holodeck with those poignant words about starships and women, and so endearing chatting with Data in ten forward. Watching the episode, I was sure there's no way any guest star gave a more memorably touching performance that year. I looked it up and Laurence Fishburne won that year. I guarantee you it was because he was more high profile and 'hotter' at the time (he'd just done "Boyz in the Hood"). I don't have to watch the episode. Scotty was robbed, I tell you!

To get more on the topic of this thread, I think Ron Moore should be commended for writing such a great script for Doohan to be a part of. The most obvious proof to me of how much he loved the original series is all of Scotty's references to its episodes as he irritates people by rambling too much about them.

It was completely understandable why his rambling made others uncomfortable and even made Geordi lose his temper as people were too busy to indulge his reminiscing. I didn't think it was disrespectful to the character at all. He was simply awkward and lonely, which caused him to unintentionally impose on others, and I think that would be inevitable after trying to re-enter society following 75 years of absence. It was a very realistic rendering of how one might interact with others in such a situation.

This is why I NEVER waste my time watching the Emmys at all-it is an awards show mostly run by flacks that gives awards to the most popular show that flacks have already been promoting. These PR flacks (so-called 'Academy' members) supposedly pick great shows to win an award, but half of what they pick is crap like Friends and the so-called performance of the actor that's supposed to be so deserving. TNG wasn't the only one to suffer this; DS9 suffered even more (no awards for Andy Robinson, Avery Brooks, Nana Visitor, Alexander Siddig, etc.)

As I said before, there needs to be a rethink of this so-called 'Academy' and it's voters; they should be replaced with dedicated paid people who are paid to watch all or most TV programs and figure out which one is the best, with each person knowing everything about the different genres of the media (drama, comedy, horror, science fiction) and not be so ignorant.

EDIT; With regards to William Shatner and Boston Legal, only awarding him for that show and ignoring his work on Star Trek: TOS is indicative of the problem I've mentioned above.

 

[Ronald Held]

I thought it was not bad. Scotty would not be acting normally after his temporal displacement with nothing technical to do competently. He just did not fit in, until he had a 23d centry Starship to work on.

 

[RAMA]

True to STNG's more mature drama, Scotty has an issue, its dealt with as best as possible and he moves on with his life after doubting his usefulness.

You consider that facile, unsophisticated after-school-special crap "mature" ?

As opposed to not exploring the character AT ALL in pervious incarnations of Trek....yes. It was the best use of Scotty EVER. Somewhat sad considering that means he was wasted in TOS and the movies. I think the reality here is that it galls purists (mind you not the majority of fans or TOS fans) of TOS that STNG did Scotty better than TOS did!!

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

It's hard for me to believe that Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhura, Scotty, etc., would not be revered and celebrated by the entire Federation.

You know to fans in the real world, Scotty is an icon...but in the Federation, after 80 years, he's still was just chief engineer on a famous starship...how many engineers from the USS New Jersey do you know of? No, I think he was portrayed realistically in Relics, as were Geordi's reactions.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

True to STNG's more mature drama, Scotty has an issue, its dealt with as best as possible and he moves on with his life after doubting his usefulness.

The Next Generation, unfortunately, was not a sophisticated, mature drama when compared to other shows on at the time, such as Hill Street Blues or L.A. Law. It's storytelling was painfully stuck in the late 60s to early 80s vain of one-hour dramas.

Star Trek (the original) in its early first-season was a mature, naturalistic adult drama — billed as television's first "adult space adventure." And was on par with other dramas of the early 60s, such as Mission: Impossible and I: Spy. Of course, as the seasons wore on, like those two examples, the storytelling became much more adventure-based, losing the subtlety of the early seasons.

I: Spy is the perfect example of a show that changed quickly in its first year — compare the excellent first-season episode "The Loser" with Eartha Kitt to "There was a Little Girl". Both episodes dealt with heroin and addiction, but "The Loser" was more subtle and naturalistic in its portrayal of addiction.

However, TNG was never really subtle, nor did it treat its characters with any naturalism. "Relics", as pointed out by Dennis, finally showed one of the TNG characters acting like a pissy, moody human being. Had that been done more often, then TNG would've been a far more interesting series.

Well I have lots of thoughts on this which I posted before...Star Trek, more than most series is a "concept" show...it works best as a concept show and less as drama. STNG, more than ANY of the other ST shows, is driven by this concept to a greater degree, it is unique...its almost the reverse of a drama..it creates interest by postulating idealism, both in characters and intent. Now of course they are showing this show in the 20th century, so many people aren't going to buy this fully, so there has to be some conflict, which to writers is the heart of drama! STNG, to a great degree adds a level of drama over the previous incarnation of Trek, and DS9 added a whole other level. I think that level of drama leads some TOS fans..who enjoyed the action-adventure quotient of 60s shows, to call STNG a soap opera. The dialogue has its own unique tone, which I know a lot of actors had to struggle with, but its more naturalistic than 60s dialogue but quite a bit!!

Edit: A thought occurred to me: When Melissa Snodgrass left STNG, she vowed (waving her fist all the way) that she'd do STNG better...because of course, petulant crewman who fart and have other foibles are always better than "perfect" people. She labored mightily and brought us this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117729/