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Spoilers TOS: Child of Two Worlds by Greg Cox Review Thread

Rate Child of Two Worlds

  • Outstanding

    Votes: 10 25.6%
  • Above Average

    Votes: 22 56.4%
  • Average

    Votes: 7 17.9%
  • Below Average

    Votes: 0 0.0%
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  • Total voters
    39
What "flippant language" are people talking about? Examples, page numbers? Mileage varies, but I didn't notice any, at least none that sounded out of place in characters' mouth or that threw me out of the story (unlike, say, in the first two Seekers novels). Dr. Boyce had some choice lines, but that's totally in character with what we see in "The Cage." Everything Pike said I could clearly hear Jeffrey Hunter saying.

The "whole planet rallying" plot was no more or less sloppy than any other time Trek treats a strange new world as a monoculture, something the franchise is (in)famous for doing. And, as I said a while back, at the rate hate and distrust spread these days, I didn't find this political scenario at all unlikely.
 
Dan and I had a great time talking about this one as our last episode of Literary Treks of 2015.
1450984669492
 
Finally got around to reading this and actually finished it in two days during the commute to and from work.

I really enjoyed it and would love to see more novels set in this period, I find Pike's crew to be very interesting and each book set during that period just enhances my interest.

I did post a review up on my website which can be reached via the link below.

Review Here
 
What "flippant language" are people talking about? Examples, page numbers? Mileage varies, but I didn't notice any, at least none that sounded out of place in characters' mouth or that threw me out of the story (unlike, say, in the first two Seekers novels). Dr. Boyce had some choice lines, but that's totally in character with what we see in "The Cage." Everything Pike said I could clearly hear Jeffrey Hunter saying.

I'm not complaining that the flippant language is out of character, I think it just withdrew from the tension. If you want an example, the rooftop scene. It's like the author wrote it, then went back and, on a whim, said, "You know what I really want to do? Put in a whole bunch of cutthroat sass."
 
Found this at my bookstore whilst looking for another book - very excited!
 
Just finished this one today. (Sorry I'm late to the party... my current eye issues have me reading much less than I'd prefer.)

I must say, I really liked this one. I don't know why, but I really enjoy the Pike era. Maybe it's because it's still TOS, but somewhat different than what we usually see? Perhaps its relative rarity makes it more unique and special? I don't know, but I do know I really like visiting this era whenever we get the chance.

I found the story itself well done, although to be honest, I couldn't help thinking of it as a 23rd-century version of "Suddenly Human" (as others have already mentioned in this thread). This version probably had a stronger emotional resonance, though, due to the presence of Elzura's/Merata's mother and siblings actually on the ship.

It was nice to see Mohindas and Carlotti from Early Voyages make appearances! (And this might be grasping at straws, but was Nurse Olsen intended to be Primeverse's version of Chief Engineer Olsen in NuTrek? Or is that reading too much into the name?)

The only real "complaint" I have is that I seemed to notice a lot more typos than usual with this one. I obviously don't remember them all, but I do recall that Number One was referred to as just "Number" at one point! :)

All in all, an enjoyable story set in a timeframe that we don't get to see too much of.

As for the ears, I was imagining something like Doctor Sevrin in "Way to Eden," but less prominent.

When it was mentioned that Cypria was a colony, and they had a cordial relationship with the homeworld, I thought the homeworld's identity would come into play at some point, but it didn't. But based on the Cyprians' description, I made the assumption that you were hinting that the homeworld was Tiburon. But based on the above quote, I guess that's not the case. Did you have a pre-existing species in mind, or are they just an entirely new creation?

I remember one article that claimed that tricorders didn't exist in Pike's time (since we didn't see them in "The Cage"), but that didn't seem practical to me. Plus, we'd seen them on ENTERPRISE, so . . .

It's hardly conclusive, but the Enterprise geologist in "The Cage" carries a piece of equipment for both landing party assignments that could be a Pike-era tricorder, or at least some kind of scanner. (Interestingly, he seems to watch it intently *during the beaming process*, so I don't know what that means....)

With regard to the clustering of most stories around "The Cage", it might be nice to see Pike's last mission, maybe with tech terms from WNMHGB?

Something in my mind was thinking we've already seen that in comic form, but I did some searching, and it looks like I was probably thinking of "All Those Years Ago...", which actually details Kirk's first mission, but which is to actually transport Pike to his next assignment, so he does figure in the story.

That's interesting; I thought you had another intention with that reference.

I took the Starship-class thing as faulty intel on the Klingon's part. The general boasted about the Empire's accurate intelligence about Starfleet and, through his "identification" of the Starship-class, the reader can infer that his information is less than perfect. At least, that was my take on the scene before reading this post. :)

I knew about the dedication plaque, so I just assumed the Klingons were using a technically correct term, but one that wasn't really used in Starfleet regularly. The Intrepid had already been identified as Constitution class at the beginning of the book, IIRC, so Starfleet itself was already using that classification. I assume "Starship class" is more akin to a type class, much as Star Trek III referred to a "scout class vessel", that Kirk thought might be Grissom.

The "Star Fleet" rendering was being used into the '70s in things like the Star Fleet Technical Manual and Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual, as well as being the spelling used in The Star Trek Concordance. I think Blish used "Starfleet" (assuming the later editions I have didn't change it), and Foster did as well. I don't think the one-word spelling was standardized onscreen until TMP, though.

I don't know about "standardized", but it did appear as one word in TOS itself: once on the cover of the Talos IV report, and three times within the report itself. I don't know how visible those would have been on 1960s-era televisions, but it was there.

Although it's also appeared onscreen as two words as late as Nemesis!

There have been multiple different backstories for Number One over the years, so I realized quickly that there was no way to incorporate them all. I pretty much cherry-picked what worked for the new books and came up with a composite version of Number One, while leaving Morgan Primus to Peter David to do with as he will, since NEW FRONTIER is his baby after all.

I do kind of wish that TOS had given us a little more background on Number One, or at least an actual name! Now we have Lefler, Robbins, "Number One" as her actual name(!), and in this book, she has an actual name, but it's apparently one that non-Illyrians have trouble with, so we don't get to hear it. I like having her appear in stories, but the contortions that the authors have to go through to avoid mentioning a name sometimes get frustrating. Pocket should just pick a name as her "Litverse" name, and just run with it. (But please, not Lefler! :p) (I wonder, if Star Trek had gone to series based on "The Cage", would we have eventually got a name for Number One, or would they have just played that out as a running gag for the whole show?)

Oh, and Greg, I know this is probably not your department, but... I really like the font the title is written in on the cover. Do you happen to know what it is? I'll try finding it with What the Font, but I figured if you might happen to know, it wouldn't hurt to ask! :)
 
Just to tease, the subject of Number One's name comes up again in the Legacies trilogy, due out in this summer. :)

As for the Cyprians, I wasn't thinking of any previously seen race. To be honest, in the original outline, it was a remote human colony, but that raised the issue of whether the Enterprise landing party was risking infecting Cypria with the fever, so it was easier just to make them a separate humanoid species instead, of the sort we often encounter in Trek. And scalloped ears seemed more fun than the usual bumpy foreheads . ... .

Sorry about the typos. I could've sworn I'd caught them all.
 
Greg will there ever be s definitive name for Number One, in the Litverse?

Who knows? That would depend on future writers and editors, and since the books aren't "canon" anyway, I'm not sure how any such decision could ever be truly "definitive" . . ..

Unless, of course, Number One reappears in some future movie or TV episode. :)
 
I don't know about "standardized", but it did appear as one word in TOS itself: once on the cover of the Talos IV report, and three times within the report itself. I don't know how visible those would have been on 1960s-era televisions, but it was there.

Although it's also appeared onscreen as two words as late as Nemesis!
Just FYI, if you go to Trek Core you can find almost full screen HD screencaps. Those ones you used there are so tiny I can barely make anything out.
 
Just to tease, the subject of Number One's name comes up again in the Legacies trilogy, due out in this summer. :)

:techman:

(I still think John Byrne missed a great opportunity for a gag in the Crew miniseries... ;))

Sorry about the typos. I could've sworn I'd caught them all.

No worries, and I hope you didn't take offense, as none was meant. (And I sort of thought that was more on the proofreader/editor anyway?)

Just FYI, if you go to Trek Core you can find almost full screen HD screencaps. Those ones you used there are so tiny I can barely make anything out.

Really? Wow, what resolution is your monitor set at? The two from "The Menagerie" are 1086 x 771 and 1024 x 768, and the one from Nemesis is the smallest at 800 x 329. They all seem reasonably large to me, but I guess my resolution of 1366 x 768 may be lower than what most people use.

Here are the corresponding images from Trek Core:

Talos IV Report Cover
Talos IV Report Interior
Battle Group Omega Graphic
 
Really? Wow, what resolution is your monitor set at? The two from "The Menagerie" are 1086 x 771 and 1024 x 768, and the one from Nemesis is the smallest at 800 x 329.

Try the links in your post; the images are 200x142, 200x150, and 200x82 respectively because of the stuff at the end of the URL gives us the thumbnail images.

If you remove everything after the file extension, you get the full-size images. You need to do that manually when linking images off a Wikia.

Edit: Or not? That doesn't work for the second or third images, huh.

Edit2: Okay, yeah, Wikias are weirder than I thought, I can't figure out how to manipulate the URL to consistently get the fullsize image. It's probably best to just link the wrapper page when linking an image off Memory Alpha as opposed to linking the image directly.
 
No worries, and I hope you didn't take offense, as none was meant. (And I sort of thought that was more on the proofreader/editor anyway?)

Oh, no offense taken. I just cringe a little when I hear about typos slipping through. And, yes, the text goes past several pairs of eyes: the editor, the copyeditor, the proofreader, etc. But I also spend hours poring over the page proofs looking for typos . . .. .
 
I don't know if it's an official name or anything, it's just what I call it since it's like a wrapper for the image.
 
Try the links in your post; the images are 200x142, 200x150, and 200x82 respectively because of the stuff at the end of the URL gives us the thumbnail images.

Funny thing is... I had used the links in my post. I tried them when I first posted, to make sure they worked, and then I used them again to get the image sizes that I quoted. And they appeared full-size to me. So I tried them on another computer, and sure enough... tiny images. I assume then that the links appeared full size for me because I had cached the full-size images when I originally found them?

Edit2: Okay, yeah, Wikias are weirder than I thought, I can't figure out how to manipulate the URL to consistently get the fullsize image. It's probably best to just link the wrapper page when linking an image off Memory Alpha as opposed to linking the image directly.

I will try to keep this in mind for next time. (Although who are we kidding; I'll probably forget! ;))

Oh, and Greg, I know this is probably not your department, but... I really like the font the title is written in on the cover. Do you happen to know what it is? I'll try finding it with What the Font, but I figured if you might happen to know, it wouldn't hurt to ask! :)

For those who are wondering (if that's anyone besides myself! :lol:), it looks like this might be one of the weights in the Briem Akademi family. The title appears to be Std Semibold, with Greg's name in Std Regular, with perhaps a slight compression along the horizontal axis in both cases. (Or perhaps another font based on Briem Akademi, at any rate.)

briem%20akademi%20std%20semibold%20-%20cotw_zpso2bdw8gb.jpg

briem%20akademi%20std%20regular%20-%20greg%20cox_zpsruvrj0q0.jpg


Unfortunately, it's fairly expensive, so I won't be getting it, but at least I found it! :)
 
Funny thing is... I had used the links in my post. I tried them when I first posted, to make sure they worked, and then I used them again to get the image sizes that I quoted. And they appeared full-size to me. So I tried them on another computer, and sure enough... tiny images. I assume then that the links appeared full size for me because I had cached the full-size images when I originally found them?

That's probably it, I ran into the same thing when I was messing around with the URLs too.
 
Funny thing is... I had used the links in my post. I tried them when I first posted, to make sure they worked, and then I used them again to get the image sizes that I quoted. And they appeared full-size to me. So I tried them on another computer, and sure enough... tiny images. I assume then that the links appeared full size for me because I had cached the full-size images when I originally found them?



I will try to keep this in mind for next time. (Although who are we kidding; I'll probably forget! ;))



For those who are wondering (if that's anyone besides myself! :lol:), it looks like this might be one of the weights in the Briem Akademi family. The title appears to be Std Semibold, with Greg's name in Std Regular, with perhaps a slight compression along the horizontal axis in both cases. (Or perhaps another font based on Briem Akademi, at any rate.)

briem%20akademi%20std%20semibold%20-%20cotw_zpso2bdw8gb.jpg

briem%20akademi%20std%20regular%20-%20greg%20cox_zpsruvrj0q0.jpg


Unfortunately, it's fairly expensive, so I won't be getting it, but at least I found it! :)

Yep. That looks like it all right. We actually had to tinker with the type on the front cover a little bit so that "COX" didn't look too much like "COH."
 
Rating "Outstanding." So much to enjoy about this one and I found it very personal. I fell like Cox "got" the feeling of being an outsider looking in very well, and Pike's knowledge that it would resonate with Spock fleshes out a character I don't know very well. I spend a lot of TrekLit time in the relaunch era; it always feels like a homecoming to find myself in TOS.
 
I'm about 60 pages into it and I like it so far. Very vivid storytelling.
I can picture a younger Spock having this conversation with his mother about his birthday cake perfectly in my mind's eye.
Seeing Boyce, Pike and Number One instead of Kirk and Bones is a nice change. There is much to discover about the time before Kirk took command of the Enterprise.
 
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