TOS Blu-Ray Question

[Noname Given]

Episodes such as The Tholian Web, The Lights of Zetar, The Immunity Syndrome and The Doomsday Machine are by far, better viewed with their original effects. The new effects on Zetar superimpose over the original effects on the shipboard scenes - awful! The Zetars look like a computer game, and the depth and awe isn't really felt in all the above episodes as much as with the original effects.

The backdrops in Wink of An Eye, By Any Other Name and Spock's Brain are a nice touch in TOS - R, and do add depth without distracting too much. And some episodes really benefit from the remastering such as Tomorrow Is Yesterday.

So I guess a) Its personal preference, but also b) some episodes are better in their remastered form than others (which in itself is a personal preference).

IDK - Overall I liked the new SFX in "The Doomsday Machine" (There is a small timing issue when they are fixing and activating the Auxiliary Viewscreen and Kirk sees what's happening to his ship and says: "Yes...I think...What the Devil!..." - but overall I thought that episode was well done in its remastered version.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I prefer the new fx in some cases, including but not limited to:

- "Tomorrow is Yesterday": the ship's course, vital to the narrative, is made clear only in the new fx.
- "Wink of an Eye" is better for the new backdrop on Scalos.
- "The Cloud Minders" is vastly improved by the new Stratos City.
- "All Our Yesterdays": I like the new star explosion at the end.

 

[Ssosmcin]

- "All Our Yesterdays": I like the new star explosion at the end.

Man, I LOVE the original so much more. Sure, it's far from accurate and it's no more than a light bulb going out, but the way the nova goes up, the planet winks out of existence while the cue from Who Mourns from Adonis is cut into the exit music from Elaan of Troyius is just so perfect. The added sound effect is unnecessary and when I accidentally played that track over the original FX, it scared the crap outta me. The Enterprise also looks like it's zooming away much faster than in the TOS-R version. For years. I wished this episode was the true finale of the series, as this entire sequence is amazing and really hits me.

IDK - Overall I liked the new SFX in "The Doomsday Machine" (There is a small timing issue when they are fixing and activating the Auxiliary Viewscreen and Kirk sees what's happening to his ship and says: "Yes...I think...What the Devil!..." - but overall I thought that episode was well done in its remastered version.

That sequence bugs me a lot, as does the idea that the Enterprise was firing away the whole time, when in the original version, Decker's "FIRE!" was clearly the first shot. Also the tractor beam wasn't actually activated when the planet killer hit the Enterprise the first time in the original edits. The dialog makes it plain that they were going to "get her ready" for towing. The original made it seems as if Spock was leading the planet killer away from the Constellation, not dragging them along (how does towing a dead starship making them "more maneuverable" than the planet killer?). TOS-R has them towing the Constellation, but nobody on that ship so much as twitches when the connection is suddenly broken.

They went all out on the effects and some of it is amazing work, but they misread a lot of what was demonstrated in the live action parts.

 

[tomswift2002]

I can barely stand to watch the original effects (even as a kid in the 80’s and 90’s I could barely stand the original effects when compared to TNG since they looked outdated then) nowadays. But I still remember how in 2006, when TOS-R first came out, and I was watching it on WXYZ Detroit, I thought they had somehow found a bunch of original effects shots that hadn’t been used and had been locked in a closet somewhere and they had used those. Over analog cable they looked good, and even now they still look good. And even now they still look good, while the originals look terrible in HD.

I just wish that CBS had included the 16:9 versions on the Blu-Rays.

 

[BillJ]

And even now they still look good, while the originals look terrible in HD.

Definitely a mileage may vary situation. I'd much rather watch the original effects on my 65" 4K TV than the new ones. I simply think that, by and large, the original effects look better.

 

[Ssosmcin]

This just makes it all the more awesome they included both versions on the Blu Rays.

 

[BillJ]

This just makes it all the more awesome they included both versions on the Blu Rays.

Unfortunately, that is the only place to see the original effects now. Is on old home video releases.

 

[Ssosmcin]

And Amazon Prime video. You can choose which versions. But yeah, that's pretty much it.

 

[Kor]

I can barely stand to watch the original effects (even as a kid in the 80’s and 90’s I could barely stand the original effects when compared to TNG since they looked outdated then) nowadays. But I still remember how in 2006, when TOS-R first came out, and I was watching it on WXYZ Detroit, I thought they had somehow found a bunch of original effects shots that hadn’t been used and had been locked in a closet somewhere and they had used those. Over analog cable they looked good, and even now they still look good. And even now they still look good, while the originals look terrible in HD.

I just wish that CBS had included the 16:9 versions on the Blu-Rays.

Same generation here, but opposite viewpoint.

Kor

 

[tomswift2002]

Same generation here, but opposite viewpoint.

Kor

Really the first time I liked the effects for a TOS episode was when I saw the DS9 episode “Trials and Tribble-Atkins”.

 

[BillJ]

And Amazon Prime video. You can choose which versions. But yeah, that's pretty much it.

Thanks for the heads up. I somehow missed them on Prime.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Thanks for the heads up. I somehow missed them on Prime.

And most of the third season episodes have the pre-DVD sound mix. They are older prints.

 

[Commishsleer]

So the fixing of the scratches and spots is separate from the TOS 2006/2009 release???
I've been watching TOS on TV lately looking at the lighting on Kirk's face and wondering if that's just random lighting and makeup or remastering to ger rid of the scratches. His eyes look really dark in one episode - just wondering if they went overboard or the remastering or that was just heavy makeup as was originally filmed.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

I would guess the master prints aren't as saturated, I too have noticed some episodes to be less 'bright' on Blu Ray, than the VHS etc, but I am only guessing.

 

[Noname Given]

I would guess the master prints aren't as saturated, I too have noticed some episodes to be less 'bright' on Blu Ray, than the VHS etc, but I am only guessing.

VHS is NTSC and analog; and the tape can degrade over time so the signal changes as well. Basically, the image can look slightly different on each individual play/replay.

Blu Ray is an HDTV digital format (hence more precise reproduction of what's encoded) and the media is either readable or it isn't - it really isn't degraded by plays and replays although depending on the manufacturing process 'rot' is possible after a time but not likely. And while there can be issues with the encoding - IF you have a readable disc - the picture should appear exactly the same on a given HDTV with no variation from replay to replay

 

[BillJ]

...it really isn't degraded by plays and replays although depending on the manufacturing process 'rot' is possible after a time but no likely.

I've had my TOS Blu-rays for a little over a decade now, and haven't had any issues.

 

[tomswift2002]

I would guess the master prints aren't as saturated, I too have noticed some episodes to be less 'bright' on Blu Ray, than the VHS etc, but I am only guessing.

You also have to remember that the masters for VHS and the pre-2006 broadcasts were done in the early-to-mid-80’s when the transfer equipment was still using vacuum tubes and capturing from a screen.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

VHS is NTSC and analog; and the tape can degrade over time so the signal changes as well. Basically, the image can look slightly different on each individual play/replay.

Blu Ray is an HDTV digital format (hence more precise reproduction of what's encoded) and the media is either readable or it isn't - it really isn't degraded by plays and replays although depending on the manufacturing process 'rot' is possible after a time but not likely. And while there can be issues with the encoding - IF you have a readable disc - the picture should appear exactly the same on a given HDTV with no variation from replay to replay

That's one of the best things about digital media: the picture and sound quality don't fade. Vinyl records wear their sound quality down with every play. Video tape loses image sharpness just from the passage of time, no matter how it's stored; this is due to entropy at the molecular level, and losses vary a lot from tape to tape. I've heard of at one case of a vintage sitcom that could not be put out on DVD because the tapes were so degraded, but I can't recall the title.

Brightness, contrast, color saturation and whatnot are all mastering decisions made when the Blu-rays were authored. In the same vein, today's digital theater projectors give us exactly the picture that the guys in the Hollywood editing suite meant us to see. Gone are the days of faded prints and, worse, the projectionist having final cut because he's been splicing film breaks in a long-running hit.

 

[tomswift2002]

That's one of the best things about digital media: the picture and sound quality don't fade. Vinyl records wear their sound quality down with every play. Video tape loses image sharpness just from the passage of time, no matter how it's stored; this is due to entropy at the molecular level, and losses vary a lot from tape to tape. I've heard of at one case of a vintage sitcom that could not be put out on DVD because the tapes were so degraded, but I can't recall the title.

I think you are thinking of Alf, as it was shot on videotape, however, except for one DVD release here in Canada, the Season sets all used the Syndication masters, rather than the network masters. Alien Productions claimed that the network masters were in terrible shape and that the syndicated versions had been kept in better shape. But from what I’ve seen of the Canadian DVD, that claim is highly skeptical. Out of the 3 episodes on the set (all 3 were hour-long specials) only one showed any sign of issues, and that was a very brief dropout during the end credits of the “Tonight, Tonight” show (and it was only a pixel wide).

However, next to film, tape is still the best way to store video and audio for long-term storage, as people are still able to get video from old tapes. The oldest known videotaped American program is the October 13, 1957 broadcast of “The Edsel Show”

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Also videotape can hold large amounts of data. The majority of TV stations broadcasting now are still using digital videotape as those tapes are cheap to use, long lasting and reliable, vs solid state media and hard drives that are more expensive and are not as reliable as tape.

Brightness, contrast, color saturation and whatnot are all mastering decisions made when the Blu-rays were authored.

Those are all done during the transfer step, since by the mastering stage, your brightness, sharpness and color saturation are already locked into your video. You can tweak it a little bit, but if you transferred it to bright or too soft, you can end up with something that looks like a lot of those Public Domain films where you have no detail in the image and only the outline of the actor, or the “Flintstones A Christmas Carol” where it looks like the telecine camera was out of focus, so across every format (broadcast, VHS, DVD, digital file) the special is extremely soft.

 

[Kor]

Tape can also be used as a digital recording and storage medium. I loved working with MiniDV in video production classes in college.

And, bizarrely, optical discs can store analog material. Enter the LaserDisc.

Kor