TNG Relaunch: What happened to Madden?

[KRAD]

I don't think Madden becoming an XO would necessarily be an insult to Worf. Obviously the character had already left a high profile, prestigious position as ambassador to return to being Chief of Security on the E, so maybe that was an indication, or could be that he was happier being a Security Chief than back on the command track.

First of all, Worf was on the command track when we saw him in Nemesis. That was a red-trimmed uniform he was wearing. The explanation in A Time for War, a Time for Peace was that he was filling in at tactical as a favor to Picard and Riker -- over the course of the A Time to... miniseries, the security force on the Enterprise suffered huge losses, and Vale, the security chief, was taking leave after the Earth wedding. So, for what should have been a milk run to Betazed for the second wedding, Worf took Vale's shifts at tactical. After that, he was going to join Riker on Titan, but after Data's death, Picard requested he stay on the Big E.

Any position other than first officer would've been a demotion for Worf.

So yeah, putting Madden on the Enterprise would've been a huge insult to Worf.

 

[Leandar]

Admiral_Young said:
Wasn't that incident put on Worf's permanent Starfleet record? I recall hearing Sisko saying that this would follow him through the rest of his career and make it very difficult for Worf to continue up the command path. I haven't seen that episode in a long time but I do sort of recall Sisko giving Worf that warning. If it is part of his permanent record then it would be up to Starfleet Command to decide later on weather or not to remove it or keep it on Worf's record...

Besides, I think it's safe to say an officer of Picard's stature could still easily want Worf for executive officer and there be no problem. As others have said, his record since then was exemplary and so there's no real reason for him not to be on the path to a captaincy of his own.

 

[Maestro]

As Worf was not the XO on DS9, he was the Strategic Operations Officer, having Madden be the Enterprise's XO and moving Worf to OPS and making him the 2nd Officer would be conceivable.

 

[Turtletrekker]

^Worf wasn't the XO of DS9, but he was the XO of the Defiant.

 

[Maestro]

The Defiant was not an independent vessel, however. It was part of DS9, so while Worf may have been her XO, it's part of his duties on DS9, where he is not the XO.

And I'm not entirely certain he was the XO of the Defiant. I'd like to see a post of some evidence to prove that.

 

[DS9Continuing]

From 501 - "Apocalypse Rising" :

KIRA
I'm glad the two of you are in agreement. But with the captain gone,
I'm in charge of the station, and I say we stay.
.
WORF
You may be in charge of the station, major, but I command the Defiant.

 

[David Mack]

How about the fact that he was clearly in command of the Defiant during the Battle of Sector 001 in the movie Star Trek First Contact? Seems fairly conclusive and unambiguous to me.

 

[DarKush]

KRAD said:

I don't think Madden becoming an XO would necessarily be an insult to Worf. Obviously the character had already left a high profile, prestigious position as ambassador to return to being Chief of Security on the E, so maybe that was an indication, or could be that he was happier being a Security Chief than back on the command track.

First of all, Worf was on the command track when we saw him in Nemesis. That was a red-trimmed uniform he was wearing. The explanation in A Time for War, a Time for Peace was that he was filling in at tactical as a favor to Picard and Riker -- over the course of the A Time to... miniseries, the security force on the Enterprise suffered huge losses, and Vale, the security chief, was taking leave after the Earth wedding. So, for what should have been a milk run to Betazed for the second wedding, Worf took Vale's shifts at tactical. After that, he was going to join Riker on Titan, but after Data's death, Picard requested he stay on the Big E.

Any position other than first officer would've been a demotion for Worf.

So yeah, putting Madden on the Enterprise would've been a huge insult to Worf.

KRAD,

Worf got so little screen time in NEM that I didn't even notice he had on command red. And I'll admit that I haven't read any of the "A Time To..." books, so I'm just going off of what I saw of Worf on DS9 and the movies.

I still don't think Worf not being XO would be an insult, no more than having the other officers-Geordi and Crusher remain in the same positions onboard the E. It's all a matter of how the writers decide to develop Worf's character.

I also think that perhaps the Trek writers don't care much for Madden and that's why he hasn't shown up. I prefer Worf to Madden, however I do think Madden had dramatic potential.

 

[KRAD]

Worf's position on DS9 was, arguably, one of greater responsibility than that of first officer on a starship, given that he was in charge of the day-to-day operations on the Defiant (as established in "Apocalypse Rising," as established in "Starship Down," as established any number of other places), which is pretty much what a first officer does, plus he was strategic operations officer, plus he was the fleet liaison with the Klingon Defense Force during the war.

Second officer would be a demotion. Hell, you could argue that just being first officer of a single starship would be a demotion from his task on DS9.

 

[captcalhoun]

the guy should be an ADMIRAL already!

 

[James Swallow]

ArtRobot said:

James Swallow said:
Poor Madden; perhaps some kind writer will one day redeem him and rescue the poor fella from the cutting room floor...

As said earlier, it (kind of) happened already...

Haven't seen that book this side of the pond, yet.

...but then there's the forthcoming Myriad Universes series. Are you dropping hints!?

Ha! Not for the story I wrote, no. Just making thinking out loud...

Therin of Andor said:
Madden joins the ranks of Xon: characters waiting for their alternate universe, non canonical place in the sun.

And then there's Elizabeth Janeway, Macha Hernandez, Doctor Amoros, Teff and Tor-Rof...

Xon, though - I recall him turning up in DC's post-TWOK ST comics as Saavik's betrothed...or am I misremembering?

 

[DimesDan]

Forbidden Planet in Stoke on Trent have Q&A last time I was in there so it is out here already in some places

 

[Therin of Andor]

^Yes indeed he did. The two-part "Origin of Saavik" (DC Comics, Series I).

To be fair though, Elizabeth Janeway, Macha Hernandez, and Doctor Julian Amoros were all simply renamed as different people.

Other original "lost" ST characters, though, would include: Tun-Tun, Stormy, Ploof, Steve, Bob and Chris, cadets from TAS. (First TAS proposal, see Titan's "Star Trek" magazine, Aussie version #90 JUL/AUG 2007; UK #132.)

 

[Christopher]

Who the heck are Teff and Tor-Rof?

And Therin's right -- we did see Elizabeth Janeway, Macha Hernandez, and Julian Amoros, simply under the names of Kathryn Janeway, Tasha Yar, and Julian Bashir. Just as Julien Picard and Bill Ryker became Jean-Luc Picard and Will Riker.

Hey, how about the original "lost character," Robert April? Essentially that was just the working name of the character who became Christopher Pike, but he was made into a distinct character by TAS and the novels.

 

[TerriO]

David Mack said:
I just pick my battles, amigo.

In your dreams, monkey boy.

 

[David Mack]

^ For instance, I'll let this one go.

 

[JD]

DarKush said:
I still don't think Worf not being XO would be an insult, no more than having the other officers-Geordi and Crusher remain in the same positions onboard the E.

Yeah, but those two have been in those positions pretty consistantly, other than Beverly's jobs at SM, and neither of them have changed positions while on the E, unlike Worf, who has had two very important jobs since the descruction of the E-D. Yeah, I know Beverly was Head of Starfleet Medical breifly, but IMO that isn't as much of a change as Security Cheif of the E-D - Strateigic Operations Officer/Defiant XO/Klingon Defense Force Liason on DS9 - Ambassador to the Klingon Empire. Then we have Geordi, who has been with the Enterprises almost all the time, except for the occaisional breif job with SCE or other such group. So yeah, I think Worf is more deserving of a promotion than those two.

 

[Tino]

Trent Roman said:
KRAD claims that having him [Wesley] remain a Traveler instead of joining the Titan crew is the more interesting character development... except since we never see Wesley and everything happens 'off-screen' as it were, it's actually no character development at all. At least on the Titan he would have had some screen time.

I have to disagree. Making him an ordinary member of the TITAN probably has less impact on him that what he did in the first two ATT-novels. He loved and he sacrificed, in the end he became truly what he ever wanted: A Traveler.

Therefore, more screen time doesn't mean more character development (see Hoshi or Travis). But I admit, having MORE screen time with him in the TITAN-series would've been nice too. :-) But image what would happen: He would rescue the TITAN everytime something occurs. Just like he did on the Enterprise.

 

[JWolf]

I have a perfect way to solve the Madden issue. Somebody please write Madden's death. Then that would be the end of that.

 

[Smiley]

How do you kill someone who never existed?