TNG changes to TOS

[AggieJohn]

I honestly never liked that the Klingon's were the good guys all of the sudden. I understand that they went back and explained it in STVI but I would have preferred that be a thing for TNG. Roddenberry seemed to want to rush utopia and assume it was already here and that removed any substance from early episodes.

Sadly it was only after he was gone did they go back to more deep grayish moral episodes with excellent villains like TOS. It sucks because there are a lot of great actors in the TNG that were wasted for a while.

Totally agree with the Romulan heads, horrible. Romulans and Klingons became more and more stereotyped as the show went on. Klingons --> Honor Romulans ---> total creeps. Cardasians --> completely insane.

 

[Anwar]

I thought the Cardassians were the most fleshed out and 3-Dimensional of Trek aliens.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Communicators. I prefer the old-fashioned flip design to the comm badge. It was more satisfying to watch the characters do the dramatic grab-n-flip when contacting each other or the ship.

Another thing about those comm badge communicators was the sound effects. You could always tell when they wouldn't work because they made a weird chirp. It was a nice sound effect touch, but the characters never seemed to notice it. You'd hear a weird chirp, then 'Riker to Enterprise', then puzzled looks. Didn't he hear the weird noise?

But yeah, if you tap it again, did you just shut it off? Or did it turn off by itself? I could never tell. It makes me think of the on/off buttons so often used today, the ones with the O and - symbols. Honestly, I don't know which symbol means what.

The original communicators had a walkie-talkie simplicity in their use and functionality.

 

[Christopher]

Another thing about those comm badge communicators was the sound effects. You could always tell when they wouldn't work because they made a weird chirp. It was a nice sound effect touch, but the characters never seemed to notice it. You'd hear a weird chirp, then 'Riker to Enterprise', then puzzled looks. Didn't he hear the weird noise?

Sure he did, but he's wondering why it didn't work.

It makes me think of the on/off buttons so often used today, the ones with the O and - symbols. Honestly, I don't know which symbol means what.

Actually they're 0 and 1, binary for off and on, respectively. The most common version we see, with the 1 overlapping a broken 0, indicates that the switch doesn't turn the device off completely but merely puts it in a standby state. A switch that has the 1 inside a complete 0 or circle, or a rocker switch that has 1 on one size and a complete 0 on the other, is an actual on/off switch rather than an on/standby switch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_symbol

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Thanks, Christopher!

I must admit, however, I prefer 'on' and 'off'. I can see how the symbols you discuss are technically more accurate, though.

And people think all we discuss on a Star Trek board are things like pon farr and Klingon swords!

 

[Christopher]

^Well, it's not that the 1/0 symbols are more accurate, just that they're not in English so that products using them can be marketed globally.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I learned something today. Thanks Christopher.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

^Well, it's not that the 1/0 symbols are more accurate, just that they're not in English so that products using them can be marketed globally.

Actually I was referring to the solid O/broken O stuff you mentioned. I would have just assumed "that's weird" and left it at that. That's my secret of being dumb, I guess.

Strangely, it's reminding me of something my math teacher said about *cough* years ago. He noted how 1.50 is technically more accurate than 1.5, being that a higher number of units allow for greater numerical 'resolution'. Pretty simple stuff, but at the time it opened a window to me. One of the little building blocks to a child's growing understanding of things.

Speaking of which (note how I deftly swing back on topic here), do I remember correctly if The Making of Star Trek noted that bit about Naval Construction Contract? For some reason my memory is associating it with the page of the ship (as well as the Klingon ship) diagram in profile.

 

[erastus25]

I thought the Cardassians were the most fleshed out and 3-Dimensional of Trek aliens.

I would agree. And thank goodness too - Trek has a nasty tendency to characterize alien species entirely by a single defining feature. Makes everything seem really cartoon-ish.

 

[Lance]

Their version of the Romulans. Hated the head ridges, bulky shoulderpad costumes and uniform haircuts. (At least have some variety. When they all look pretty much the same the uniqueness and personality is lost.)

Yeah, I hated the way the races all got homogenised visually. The Klingons all got long hair, beards and plate armor (and the women looked the same, sans beard ). The Romulans all got pudding bowl haircuts (for both male and female Romulans, something that was not true in TOS), forehead ridges, and the same bulky costumes. The pudding bowl haircut afflicted all Vulcans equally as well, despite again the TOS movies clearly defining that female Vulcans weren't adverse to longer styled hair.

I can understand why they did this, it's easier on the make-up budget if you've got a bunch of generic appliances that can just be pasted to any extra who gets brought in. But it did mean a lot of the individuality was lost. We might all smirk at Bob The Discount Klingon from "Friday's Child", but what's positive about him is that he's representative of a series where each make-up was completely unique, and every Klingon was potentially different looking to every other Klingon.

 

[Warped9]

There were quite a few things brought in with TNG that I didn't care for.

- The design of the E-D. I've gotten used to it, and it's better than a lot of what I saw come afterward, but I think it's quite flawed. The front end makes it viaually unbalanced. And the soft soap aesthetic doesn't really work form me either. It has very few good viewing angles.

- The pompous holier-than-thou attitiude of the characters early on and still periodically throughout the series.

- The overly beige hotel like interior sets.

- Messing too much with the Romulan and Vulcan make-up. The ridges looked stupid. The characterizations of the Vulcans and Romulans was generally poor as well.

- Not getting to see some of the TOS aliens to some decent extent, particularly Andorian and Gorn.

- The families aboard ship idea stunk (and still does).

- Deviating too much from what TOS established in terms of historical backstory.

- Making the E-D the flagship and then having everyone else in Starfleet act like it was the only good thing around.

- Overuse of the magic holodeck.

- Forehead-of-the-week aliens.

- Often clunky handling of A and B plot episodes.

 

[Christopher]

Strangely, it's reminding me of something my math teacher said about *cough* years ago. He noted how 1.50 is technically more accurate than 1.5, being that a higher number of units allow for greater numerical 'resolution'. Pretty simple stuff, but at the time it opened a window to me. One of the little building blocks to a child's growing understanding of things.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your math teacher was wrong. It's not more accurate to add another decimal place, it's more precise. Those aren't the same thing. Accuracy is how close you are to the right answer, while precision is how narrow your error bars are. If you say that pi equals 3 plus or minus 0.5, then that's rather imprecise, but it's accurate, because pi actually is within the specified range. But if you say pi equals 3.0000000 exactly, then that's very precise, but not at all accurate, because it's the wrong answer.

And sometimes too much precision can be inaccurate because it ignores the margin of error. Case in point: When normal human body temperature was measured, it was concluded that it has an average of about 37 Celsius -- and then some lazy person mistook that approximate value for a precise value and converted exactly 37 C to 98.6 F. And that added decimal place has tricked countless people into believing that normal temperature is exactly 98.6 F at all times and for all people, when really it varies by a degree or so from person to person and over the course of a day. It would be less precise but more accurate to say that normal body temperature is about 99 F give or take a degree.

Speaking of which (note how I deftly swing back on topic here), do I remember correctly if The Making of Star Trek noted that bit about Naval Construction Contract? For some reason my memory is associating it with the page of the ship (as well as the Klingon ship) diagram in profile.

Nope, that diagram just says "USS ENTERPRISE SPACE CRUISER." The book's chapter titled "The U.S.S. Enterprise" doesn't even mention "NCC-1701" anywhere in its text.

 

[Warped9]

Franz Joseph's blueprints were the first place I saw Naval Construction Contract.

 

[Lance]

There were quite a few things brought in with TNG that I didn't care for.

- The design of the E-D. I've gotten used to it, and it's better than a lot of what I saw come afterward, but I think it's quite flawed. The front end makes it viaually unbalanced. And the soft soap aesthetic doesn't really work form me either. It has very few good viewing angles.

- The pompous holier-than-thou attitiude of the characters early on and still periodically throughout the series.

- The overly beige hotel like interior sets.

- Messing too much with the Romulan and Vulcan make-up. The ridges looked stupid. The characterizations of the Vulcans and Romulans was generally poor as well.

- Not getting to see some of the TOS aliens to some decent extent, particularly Andorian and Gorn.

- The families aboard ship idea stunk (and still does).

- Deviating too much from what TOS established in terms of historical backstory.

- Making the E-D the flagship and then having everyone else in Starfleet act like it was the only good thing around.

- Overuse of the magic holodeck.

- Forehead-of-the-week aliens.

- Often clunky handling of A and B plot episodes.

Nailed it.

I do think TNG did much to enhance the Star Trek universe, especially in the areas of universe building (which is what my other recent thread was about, sort of a try at a "positive spin" counter-point to this one). But yeah, the above list is for me pretty definitive.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Bendii Syndrome
(Spoilers)

One change to an Original Series character - Sarek, specifically - still gives me pause. Sarek is probably the most dignified and regal character in the franchise and yet, TNG re-introduces him to the series as being inflicted with Alzheimer's. I have very mixed feelings about this for various reasons, a few of which I will try to explain. First, Mark Lenard had potential for being a recurring guest star, which wasn't even open to being explored, at all, and this was a real loss to the series. And though finding out that Sarek likes Mozart was an interesting addition to the character, the ILM tear Sarek sheds during Data's solo violin performance is risible.

The show does make enough of a fuss about Sarek's importance so that someone unfamiliar with the character can sympathise with his downfall, but it's really Picard's deep admiration and respect for Sarek that makes it play, because of his Vulcan "coldness." And after the Mind Meld, it's clever in using the Captain to express aspects and inner needs of the Ambassador, but Mark Lenard's not given much of anything to do. He's playing RICHARD III, but it's being expressed for him by Sir Patrick Stewart. It's clearly a Picard show and this aspect almost completely overwhelms the Sarek guest appearance. But when Beverly reaches out to the emotionally devistated Picard and says, "I'm right here, Jean-Luc. I'm not going anywhere," it's a really beautiful moment and one of my favourites involving Bev.

Nevertheless, the introduction of Vulcan Alzheimer's is interesting, especially considering how this particular species is so heavily immersed in mind games, with always maintaining emotional control, mind melds, the transferring katras and the like. So, Bendii Syndrome is a cool concept, it works on several levels, including making commentary on aging, but how it was applied here could've stood some scrutiny. This wasn't the way to introduce Sarek to TNG fans who didn't watch or really get into TOS. Sarek should've had a couple of strong episodes first, so when he does get hit with dementia, it's more appropriately impactful.

 

[Christopher]

TNG didn't overuse the holodeck any more than TOS overused Earth-duplicate planets. They served the same purpose: to allow the reuse of existing props, costumes, set pieces, and backlots from historical or contemporary productions rather than having to spend money creating new, alien stuff. And a holodeck simulation of Earth history is a far, far more plausible way of achieving that end than an alien planet that coincidentally happens to have evolved in parallel with Earth. I'll take TNG's approach any day.

 

[BillJ]

I'll take TNG's approach any day.

I thought TOS take was more fun and entertaining.

 

[Anwar]

- The pompous holier-than-thou attitiude of the characters early on and still periodically throughout the series.

To be fair, that's how "Modern" (the term is quite relative) people usually act towards their past. I mean, Spock and the Vulcans did it in TOS too with their "You Stupid Illogical Humans" stuff.

- The overly beige hotel like interior sets.

- Not getting to see some of the TOS aliens to some decent extent, particularly Andorian and Gorn.

The reason we didn't see the Gorn or Tholians until ENT was because of royalties issues. They'd have to pay the families of the writers of "Arena" and "Tholian Web" to use them again. They'd resolved that by ENT.

We didn't see Andorians until ENT either because the makeup tech at the time didn't look good enough.

- Deviating too much from what TOS established in terms of historical backstory.

TOS was hardly a bastion of it's own continuity and history either...

- Making the E-D the flagship and then having everyone else in Starfleet act like it was the only good thing around.

TOS did this too, with the Enterprise being "The only ship in range".

- Overuse of the magic holodeck.

TOS did this with "Gangster Planet" or "Roman Planet" stuff. Sometimes with even no explanation like "Miri".

- Forehead-of-the-week aliens.

As opposed to TOS' "Aliens who look just like humans" of the week?

- Often clunky handling of A and B plot episodes.

TOS didn't have to do B and C plots because they only had 3 central characters (and that's on a good day, sometimes it was just Kirk and Spock) with everyone else as background characters who didn't really matter (aside from the guest stars/guest villains). It's inherently easier to write a single story about 2-3 people than it is to write one about 7-8 people with all characters represented equally.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Wrong. their were times in TNG were other characters referred to the E-D as "the best" (or something to that effect) and it had nothing to do with a ship being in range.

Also Spock's or Vulcans' attitude was that of an alien culture and not representing humanity as a whole. That's different than what they did on TNG.

 

[Anwar]

^^ Wrong. their were times in TNG were other characters referred to the E-D as "the best" (or something to that effect) and it had nothing to do with a ship being in range.

Eh, TOS did stuff like saying Spock was the Best XO in the Fleet or whatever. You just roll with some things.

Also Spock's or Vulcans' attitude was that of an alien culture and not representing humanity as a whole. That's different than what they did on TNG.

It was still annoying and hypocritical since the Vulcans were worse the humans ever were (in their past).

If you ran into a common joe on the Street and asked him if he thought people today were better than people were 400 years ago, naturally he'd say yes. That's just how people are. It makes sense for the TNG people to think they were better than their predecessors. Annoying yes, but realistic.