Time To Come Out...

[UnknownSample]

I have to admit BOBW P2 never seemed to live up to what had happened in P1, though I can't even say why. It's still a far better episode than what we got in VOY and ENT (a lot of the time), but it just seems...off.

I think because it had a convenient last-minute miraculous wrap-up, with putting the cube to sleep. The writers admitted that they wrote the cliffhanger having no idea how to wrap it up. They never got that idea. The Borg invasion ought to have taken more time, and should have involved more than one cube.

 

[captainkirk]

I do not get what was so great about Far Beyond the Stars. Also I think City on the Edge of Forever is extremely overrated.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I liked the Borg up through Scorpion but think they ruined them unredeemably from Dark Frontier on. Replaced everything that made them cool with a generic villain persona.

 

[Vger23]

I think the weakest TOS films are TUC and TVH

I love S3 of TOS

I like ENT better than about 1/3 of TNG

I can't stand the Klingon TNG episodes.

And the big confession- I find about 85% of popular "genre" stuff to be irredeemable nerdy craptastic shit:
All Marvel
All D.C. Except Batman
Dr. Who
Stargate
B5
Lord of the Rings
Guardians of the Frigging Galaxy
About 1/2 of Star Wars (prequels and R1 are garbage)
...ugh keep all that crap! Haha!

 

[Vger23]

Genre stuff I DO like:

Mass Effect
Alien
Blade Runner
Mad Max
2001/2010
Firefly
Twilight Zone

I think the weakest TOS films are TUC and TVH

I love S3 of TOS

I like ENT better than about 1/3 of TNG

I can't stand the Klingon TNG episodes.

And the big confession- I find about 85% of popular "genre" stuff to be irredeemable nerdy craptastic shit:
All Marvel
All D.C. Except Batman
Dr. Who
Stargate
B5
Lord of the Rings
About 1/2 of Star Wars (prequels and R1 are garbage)
...ugh keep all that crap! Haha!

 

[sbk1234]

I can't stand the Doctor from Voyager. I find him incredibly overrated, egotistical, grating and hammy, to the point I have no interest in "holographic rights" or any medical related ploys from the show, as I know he'll feature too heavily. In the beginning, when he was limited to Sickbay, he was at least a sympathetic character due to the constraints placed upon him, but as he grew he became all the more insufferable.

I have to admit, I'm in mostly agreement with you, it seems. While I don't have a problem with Robert Picardo's performance at all, I HATE the idea of sentient holograms, or a holographic character at all. If it were up to me, I'd have had the same actor as the doctor, but simply being a character with no genuine people skills. He could still have the journey to discover his own humanity.

And while we're at it, I hate the holodeck. Perhaps if they limited it to only artificial environments, but to create sentient characters, and simply characters that indistinguishable from real people was, IMHO, problematic as a story telling device. It was kind of like watching a TV show about people playing a video game.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

I dislike:

• Using the transporter to solve problems.
• Using the holodeck to solve problems.
• Grimdark and ubergritty.
• People who LIKE grimdark and ubergritty.
• People who design ridiculous fanboy Uberships.
• People in general.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It was kind of like watching a TV show about people playing a video game.

Strangely enough, there are shows like that. On YouTube, anyway.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

Strangely enough, there are shows like that. On YouTube, anyway.

I love Let's Plays. They're great for games I'm interested in, but don't have the manual dexterity / money to play. (Which is most games, since I never really graduated from the basic Atari joystick and today's game controllers are WITCHCRAFT.)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Where in the world do people talk like those Squiddy guys? I can't understand a damn word.

 

[Takeru]

I liked the doctor but I never liked treating him as a person.

When he considered leaving Voyager to start a singing career on some alien planet for example that idea should have been shut down with "You're not leaving, you're property and even if we let you leave you won't take the movile emitter with you!".
Then there was than nonsense about him marrying an actual woman in Endgame. Ridiculous!

He was a tool, a part of the ship's systems.


I also think Roddenberry was a lot of things but NOT a visionary, his vision of the future is completely uninspired. It's a utopia, whoopdeedoo, that concept is thousands of years old. "What if everyone was nice to each other and I could get everything I want" is an idea I had as a child ... for selfish reasons but it comes kinda close to Star Trek, it's hardly an original idea so I dislike how Roddenberry is treated by some as this great thinker. I also dislike how parts of the fandom act like Star Trek is this super special and unique franchise that invented the concept of not being racist and whatnot.

 

[Vger23]

I liked the doctor but I never liked treating him as a person.

When he considered leaving Voyager to start a singing career on some alien planet for example that idea should have been shut down with "You're not leaving, you're property and even if we let you leave you won't take the movile emitter with you!".
Then there was than nonsense about him marrying an actual woman in Endgame. Ridiculous!

He was a tool, a part of the ship's systems.


I also think Roddenberry was a lot of things but NOT a visionary, his vision of the future is completely uninspired. It's a utopia, whoopdeedoo, that concept is thousands of years old. "What if everyone was nice to each other and I could get everything I want" is an idea I had as a child ... for selfish reasons but it comes kinda close to Star Trek, it's hardly an original idea so I dislike how Roddenberry is treated by some as this great thinker. I also dislike how parts of the fandom act like Star Trek is this super special and unique franchise that invented the concept of not being racist and whatnot.

Actually, I don't think his original vision was utopian. That came later when he was busy trying to capitalize on Star Trek's success in the 70's. The original vision was simply one where humans decided to discontinue killing each other on a large scale due to their differences. Humans were still flawed and Earth wasn't perfect...but it was dedicated to TRYING to do the right thing and TRYING to improve.

Utopia came later.

And put everyone to sleep.

 

[Vger23]

Maybe that's another one of my biggest "coming out" things about Trek as well.

I never once bought the "vision" or "philosophy" thing. It's a great show. It's a great show because space adventure is fun and the characters and tech are cool. The problem solving and twists are interesting. The show has an adult feel without being aggressively over-the-top such that family couldn't watch it. But it ain't a great show because it's to be viewed as a blueprint on how to live our lives.

I never resonated with all the people that talk about the "vision of the future" and "humanity's evolution" and "Trek's philosophy" and all that garbage. At it's core, Trek was an adventure show. It also at times celebrated overcoming weakness and bias/prejudices to advance humanity's place in the universe...and it did so to varying degrees of success and value.

But for me, when Picard or Janeway start clamoring away about how humanity has evolved and blah blah blah...I want to punch a baby.

Fortunately, it doesn't happen as often as people like to think.

 

[fireproof78]

Maybe that's another one of my biggest "coming out" things about Trek as well.

I never once bought the "vision" or "philosophy" thing. It's a great show. It's a great show because space adventure is fun and the characters and tech are cool. The problem solving and twists are interesting. The show has an adult feel without being aggressively over-the-top such that family couldn't watch it. But it ain't a great show because it's to be viewed as a blueprint on how to live our lives.

I never resonated with all the people that talk about the "vision of the future" and "humanity's evolution" and "Trek's philosophy" and all that garbage. At it's core, Trek was an adventure show. It also at times celebrated overcoming weakness and bias/prejudices to advance humanity's place in the universe...and it did so to varying degrees of success and value.

But for me, when Picard or Janeway start clamoring away about how humanity has evolved and blah blah blah...I want to punch a baby.

Fortunately, it doesn't happen as often as people like to think.

Which is why I like TOS so much. Humanity surviving to the future was the big win, and that some changes had occurred, and were revolutionary in their absence (I.e. racism).

The rest of the philosophy I could give or take. I do not base my philosophical underpinnings on a TV show.

 

[Space Coast]

ENT is trash. Its good episodes were good, yes, but the overwhelming majority were terrible.

Most of the movies are pretty mediocre at best. TWOK, TUC, Beyond, and to a lesser extent FC are the exceptions.

Voyager's conclusion may be the worst deus ex machina Trek has ever done, and that in and of itself is a feat.

Similarly, what Voyager did to the Borg is absolutely inexcusable. The Borg should have stayed the terrifying force of nature they were, not get nerfed just for convenience. Making it worse is that it still didn't help much until the final episode: the Borg just kept coming back. Either knock them out or let them stay terrifying.

TOS is full of corniness and I think everyone knows it but is just too afraid to admit that the series that started it all was indeed a TV show from the 60s and therefore there wasn't that much care and devotion to the franchise put into it.

There are too many Nazi episodes. Yes, the Nazi episodes are good, but they never seem to bring up any of the other big nasties of the Second World War or the early 20th century. Where are my Imperial Japanese or Stalin's Soviet Union episodes, dammit?

The idea of a post-currency economy is completely silly, post-scarcity or no post-scarcity. Last I checked replicators do not grow on trees, and neither do starships. Also, the idea of the Federation being Utopian should have been buried back in the 70s where the idea of utopias was born and promptly killed off. Utopias are boring, firstly, and the effort needed to maintain a utopia usually destroys the utiopian-ness of it. Lily and Picard's Moby Dick dialogue is intensely satisfying because of that and practically makes the movie.

 

[Takeru]

Similarly, what Voyager did to the Borg is absolutely inexcusable. The Borg should have stayed the terrifying force of nature they were, not get nerfed just for convenience. Making it worse is that it still didn't help much until the final episode: the Borg just kept coming back. Either knock them out or let them stay terrifying.

Voyager just continued what TNG started. The Borg were a force of nature for exactly one episode. In their second appearance they were defeated by Data basically telling them to go to bed.
They introduced the concept of assimilation, meaning you can become a borg and then stop being one, they met their pet borg Hugh, making drones sympathetic and then they became Lore's lackeys. Force of nature? Only until they met Picard.

 

[Amaris]

Count me as another one who doesn't like the Mirror Universe episodes. Any time I do a rewatch, I skip over them. The sole exception is the original series. I find that one to be fun.

 

[1001001]

Count me as another one who doesn't like the Mirror Universe episodes. Any time I do a rewatch, I skip over them. The sole exception is the original series. I find that one to be fun.

I have to disagree there.

In a Mirror, Darkly was brilliant, IMHO.

 

[stardream]

I do not like the Kelvin timeline.....there I said it.

That goes against the norm? I thought it was going against the norm to like it.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Is that not fun?

Not unless you've designated a safe word.

I have to admit BOBW P2 never seemed to live up to what had happened in P1, though I can't even say why. It's still a far better episode than what we got in VOY and ENT (a lot of the time), but it just seems...off.

I like Patrick Stewart, but to me, it really seemed like the ending the first part was headed for meant that Riker would be taking command - and at the time, I was looking forward to that. Like @UnknownSample said, the ending we got seemed like a quickfire deus ex machina.